Sennheiser HD800S Review (Headphone)

[DualTriode]

These HE400i were bought s couple of years ago

 

[infinitesymphony]

Thank you for correcting my ignorance. That its active, so could employ EQ that could explain the close correlation to the Harman target.

Tho also, not the one you linked to, rather this slightly cheaper one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MWCNR3W/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_Fks3Fb5Y18DG9

True, those were the originals. They retailed for $99 until the Plus model replaced them. AKG are responsible for designing the Galaxy Buds and they're owned by Harman, hence the target curve. If you don't trust RTINGS, here's another source where they score highly (scroll down to in-ear headphones):

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/blob/master/results/RANKING.md

Frequency response is not the only useful metric even though for the purpose of RTINGS and this list it's being used to calculate the score. However, it is a fair starting point. We're still discovering what other metrics could be valid and useful for evaluating headphone performance.

 

[Robbo99999]

These HE400i were bought s couple of years agoView attachment 100126View attachment 100127View attachment 100128

Well that would be interesting to put in Amir's HE400i thread when he's finished doing the review for them. What's that relate to in percentage? If I remember rightly, you have the exact same measurement setup?

 

[DualTriode]

Well that would be interesting to put in Amir's HE400i thread when he's finished doing the review for them. What's that relate to in percentage? If I remember rightly, you have the exact same measurement setup?

Much the same setup. mine is the same analyzer, slightly different 45CA-9 his 45CA-10. I am using APx500 v 4.6 with acoustic response option software. Attached is a % version of the plot. also see dB difference to % calculator. http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-thd.htm

I believe that there is still a fair amount of ambient noise showing up in the distortion measurements. I moved the 45CA across the hall with two closed doors between the instrument fans and the 45CA. the measurements are much improved.

 

[gatucho]

I do like IEMs, especially custom-molded ones that just seem to disappear in your ears and makes it feel like the music is being channeled directly into your brain, but what they lack completely is any tactile bass, which some over-ear headphones can provide a small amount of, felt on the pinna or sometimes the skull around the ear (obviously still nowhere near the tactile bass felt from a proper full-range speaker or subwoofer). I suspect this complete lack of tactile bass in IEMs is why Harman found people prefer more bass in them than over-ear headphones. IEMs obviously also lack the 'pinna activation' of over-ear headphones which is important for soundstage, although this can be simulated through frequency response (look up Blauert bands).

You are right. More and more I feel that modern music is being produced to be consumed using earpods, with some positional tricks added to it.

 

[Noodles]

Never thought i would see a review of these here, awesome job as always @amirm!

 

[Robbo99999]

Much the same setup. mine is the same analyzer, slightly different 45CA-9 his 45CA-10. I am using APx500 v 4.6 with acoustic response option software. Attached is a % version of the plot. also see dB difference to % calculator. http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-thd.htm

I believe that there is still a fair amount of ambient noise showing up in the distortion measurements. I moved the 45CA across the hall with two closed doors between the instrument fans and the 45CA. the measurements are much improved.View attachment 100150

I think that's showing lower distortion than Amir's measurements, he's just posted up his review of this headphone. You could shift some of your findings over to that thread if you liked. I don't know what Amir's position is on someone providing additional measurements on the same kit, as "competition/comparison" but it's another data point, and it's certainly interesting & relevant. Additionally could be a way of increasing testing best practice or accuracy for instance.

 

[GimeDsp]

Do others have issues with AMD cpu as well ?

Not sure.
It seems there are many people that have issues as there are "many" settings to try on their FAQ when things work.
Luckily its free to try so.

 

[sweetchaos]

For Windows users using 'Equalizer APO':

Preamp: -11.7 dB
Filter 1: ON LS Fc 40 Hz Gain 8.0 dB Q 1.0
Filter 2: ON LS Fc 75 Hz Gain 3.0 dB Q 1.0
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 2705 Hz Gain 3.0 dB Q 1.0
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 5400 Hz Gain -3.0 dB Q 3.0
Filter 5: ON HS Fc 10000 Hz Gain -2.0 dB Q 1.0

For more info, see List of Amir's Headphone PEQ filters.

 

[Sal1950]

I see no reason to spend the money for an upgrade from my HD650's ?
I'm still using my Emotiva DC-1 DAC/Preamp as a headphone amp. It measured here quite well and it's selectable +2 db @ 20hz headphone eq fits quite well with the 650. Maybe not the best ever cans but otoh I never seem to tire of them. Plus I mostly would rather listen to my speakers.

 

[Robbo99999]

I see no reason to spend the money for an upgrade from my HD650's ?
I'm still using my Emotiva DC-1 DAC/Preamp as a headphone amp. It measured here quite well and it's selectable +2 db @ 20hz headphone eq fits quite well with the 650. Maybe not the best ever cans but otoh I never seem to tire of them. Plus I mostly would rather listen to my speakers.

It depends how much you value soundstage in headphones, the Sennheiser HD600 (& I think HD650) are all a very much in-your-head listening experience in my experience of the HD600...in direct contrast to my K702 which has for me a very similar soundstage to my equilateral triangle JBL 308p speakers, and I really do prefer the K702 over the HD600. The Senn 800S is probably having an even more impressive soundstage than the K702 by most anecdotal accounts as well as soundstage measurements at RTings.......so if you value soundstage, which to me is praps the most fundamental, then you'd definitely want the 800S over the HD650 that you have.....or test out some headphones like K702 or others with great soundstage. If you're a Headphone Harman Curve lover, then for sure apply a Harman Curve EQ to each of the headphones you test, as that can affect soundstage too....and in a positive way if you're a positive responder to the Harman Curve on a tonal level.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I don't get it. Neutron player is an app that runs on iPhone, Android, etc., that does an excellent job of EQ among hundreds of other functions, like crossfeed, plus a ton more. I've been using it for years. Is it really too heavy to carry?

Bought it today.
Good grief!
One day I may have enough spare time to find where what I want is in the morass and learn how to use it, but maybe not!

 

[pkane]

Bought it today.
Good grief!
One day I may have enough spare time to find where what I want is in the morass and learn how to use it, but maybe not!

It's not that hard, and definitely worth learning. Amazing what you can get for a few $ I had it connected to my NAS music server and playing music over WiFi in a matter of minutes.

 

[svenz]

I was so scared to read this review after pouring significant amount of money into my beloved HD800s (along with a custom EQ from Sonarworks). The conclusion largely mirrors my own though! These headphones are a joy to listen music to with good EQ.

Without EQ they sound quite dire, unfortunately. I can notice very obviously when I forget to swap on EQ, more so than other headphones I own.

HD650s are great as well, and I may even pick up a pair for when I can't easily enable EQ, like with smart TV apps or a gaming console.

I love my Genelecs as well, but being in a small room I suffer from room modes pretty bad, although I can EQ those out decently. The HD800s always seem to sound better although they lack the bass.

The comfort of the HD800s is truly great. I wear them all day, 8+ hours, and get no fatigue at all. In my experience most other high end headphones are far too heavy, and I can't stand wearing them for more than an hour or two (looking at you LCDs and Focals).

I really do love these headphones.

 

[Frank Dernie]

It's not that hard, and definitely worth learning. Amazing what you can get for a few $ I had it connected to my NAS music server and playing music over WiFi in a matter of minutes.

I only wanted it to play on my phone to headphones.
Listening at home I am mainly back on CDs for speed of finding my classical music with Qobuz for keeping up with what is new.

 

[The Torrent]

I use mine with Oratory's Harman curve 90% and love them.

 

[MZKM]

@amirm
Any plans to re-test this and optimize placement so the 9kHz dip isn't so bad? Or is it really just due to your fixture?

Because now I am confident in my scores, and the massive dip cause it to be decently lower than Oratory's, but capping it at 8kHz instead of 10kHz does bring it closer to Oratory's 83 (my digitized & interpolated version gives 82):

 

[amirm]

@amirm
Any plans to re-test this and optimize placement so the 9kHz dip isn't so bad? Or is it really just due to your fixture?

I have packed the poor headphone five times only to open it again for yet another test. I think the other measurements are filtered which fills in the drop. Look at how the small variations in mine are not seen in the other around 2 kHz.

 

[MZKM]

I have packed the poor headphone five times only to open it again for yet another test. I think the other measurements are filtered which fills in the drop. Look at how the small variations in mine are not seen in the other around 2 kHz.

Both have been interpolated and smoothed to 12PPO. Granted, your native data is of higher resolution than my digitization of Oratory's, so even the 12PPO looks more detailed.
His I believe is a 3 measurement average, so that also smooths it.

Here is yours unsmoothed:

I do believe the paper calls for the 3 averaging though, and most all other reviewers also do averaging (Crinacle does 3 and RTINGS even does 5). But yeah, I know you don’t like averaging, but I would suggest doing multiple measurements and choosing one that doesn’t have such a huge dip ~10kHz (if you already do this, and the HD800S had a huge dip in all of them, then maybe the given Target curve data for your unit is not fully accurate).

 

[Pearljam5000]

i owned the HD800 3 times, I also owned the AKG K1000
I would say the HD800 are the best headphones ever.
Instrument separation is insane, clarity is sublime, for the price it's a bargain especially when compared with today's flagship prices (I'm looking at you Focal Utopia)
But it's most important strength is the soundstage, it just doesn't sound like any other headphone because of it.