Sennheiser HD660s - divisive headphones

[noel_fs]

I really can't let you say that. Not only it isn't true, but like said by many people, actually 600 > 650 > 660S. Feel free to think othewise, we all have different ears. And I'm not the only one saying it. See this for example :

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/bcbz8g

It's a bit naive to think that a headphone is better just because it's more recent or because its model number is higher. The 650 ans the 660S never managed to do 'better' than the 600, which is why the 600 is still being sold after 24 years. Sennheiser was never able to replace it.

well i explicitly explained to you why they are better. you can like more either of them. 600 drivers are easier to listen to, require less brain power and given certain conditions like taste/setup/use its understandable you get more joy out of them.

But objectively 660 are better and more flexible. For example competitive gaming with the older driver is kind of like shooting yourself in the foot. If you are playing casually its a positive experience but if you are competitive it lacks accuaracy, you can hear where the sounds come from and more or less where the opponent is situated but you cant ever pinpoint him in a point in time. Feels like the sounds you are receiving arent precise or fast enough, reminds me a bit of input lag. With 660 thats completely solved, feels natural to pin point anyone or anything in a place in time; you know from where, distance and how it arrived at your ears. With the older drivers it feels like you are listening at what the headphones have to say instead being an instant feeling.

I could give some differences with music but i think its easier and shorter with the gaming example to get an idea on how the headphones compare somewhat in "technical" terms.

 

[Agony]

I stopped reading here :

Discussion on the HD6-- models isn't anything new, and comments like yours won't change its outcome. It has already been stated by too many people for you to change anything. Read my link again, carefully this time. And show some respect.
Now I have better things to do, so I'm out of this useless topic. I won't be replying anymore. Happy discussing.

Do u have all of them ? Do u have more than 400 hours on all of them ? personally ? Come again when u do or not .

I show respect to people that disserve it , and by judging on your comment ( i stop reading , i have better things to do, i am out of this useless topic) u dont .

If u want respect , watch solderdude comments , we had an disagreement he proved me wrong and thats how it works .

 

[solderdude]

HD410-6 (don't have it anymore) about 40 years ago.

 

[solderdude]

In Jose's defense: when considering the Harman curve and 1 specific test fixture the HD600 get's the highest preference score of the 3 headphones, both with and without EQ.
The HD660 also shows a peak at 5.5kHz which needs to be lowered.

Of course, personal taste is aways a thing as well. I don't put much value on 'preference ratings' though. Just an alogorithm let loose on a specific measurement. It certainly will not reflect every one's preference and not mine either.

 

[paolomo]

When I read about the very different reviews for the 660s I sometimes wonder whether there are variations in the production. Considering the price there shouldn't be.

I suspect that the biggest variations are in the expectations of the reviewers... Anyway, very interesting discussion so far!

 

[noel_fs]

In Jose's defense: when considering the Harman curve and 1 specific test fixture the HD600 get's the highest preference score of the 3 headphones, both with and without EQ.
The HD660 also shows a peak at 5.5kHz which needs to be lowered.

Of course, personal taste is aways a thing as well. I don't put much value on 'preference ratings' though. Just an alogorithm let loose on a specific measurement. It certainly will not reflect every one's preference and not mine either.

in the other hand innerfidelity rig doesnt show that. personally my ears dont perceive any peaking there and im quite sensitive in the 4k area.

 

[solderdude]

That's because there is no peaking at 4kHz with HD660S.
There is around 5.5kHz. It is narrow and just around 2.5 to 3dB. It manifests itself exactly as Tyll describes in the video. There is a slight 'roughness' and some 'edgy' sound to it. Remove that small peak and the 'smoothness' in the treble is back.
When you look at the plot you posted and look at the green EQ trace it shows a 2.5dB dip so here too the dip is there.

 

[garageband]

Sonarworks reviewed the 660 S and this was their conclusion:

Conclusion
If you’re looking for a revolution, then this sadly isn’t it. The HD660 S is an attempt to evolve the HD650 into something more exciting. The problem is that much of what made the HD650 great for sound editing has been therefore lost. It’s still a decent headphone for recreational listening, because of extra sparkle up top. However unlike 15 years ago, there are other decent headphones around the 500$ mark.

 

[Agony]

Sonarworks reviewed the 660 S and this was their conclusion:

Conclusion
If you’re looking for a revolution, then this sadly isn’t it. The HD660 S is an attempt to evolve the HD650 into something more exciting. The problem is that much of what made the HD650 great for sound editing has been therefore lost. It’s still a decent headphone for recreational listening, because of extra sparkle up top. However unlike 15 years ago, there are other decent headphones around the 500$ mark.

What are those other headphones around 500 mark ? I have (had) Sundara , 400i , 1990, 712pro, HD599,560s, 598, AD900X i like most of them for different reasons , some i still have and use some times, But i cant see any upgrade over the HD 6 . some are better on something and worst on something else .
I guess there are some other options that i haven't tried or dont ship in Europe . Would be nice to tell me so i can try to find them . Uner 500 mark is a good value i bealive .

 

[Agony]

HD410-6 (don't have it anymore) about 40 years ago.
View attachment 128473

WOW that is a headphone that i love to have it on Closed box , Sennheiser send me the 25 anniversary of HD25 line the yellow pads , but Like Every other Headphone from Sennheiser HD 5 , HD 6 series there are no Closed with gelatin . I have find one of thoseHD410 but was bad condition.

 

[Agony]

That's because there is no peaking at 4kHz with HD660S.
There is around 5.5kHz. It is narrow and just around 2.5 to 3dB. It manifests itself exactly as Tyll describes in the video. There is a slight 'roughness' and some 'edgy' sound to it. Remove that small peak and the 'smoothness' in the treble is back.
When you look at the plot you posted and look at the green EQ trace it shows a 2.5dB dip so here too the dip is there.

Sorry for Of topic , but i recently contact Sennheiser for their NEW HD6 line pads ( those have different foam inside harder, also they are thicker and use different see throw plastic ring inside ) the problem is that they use the same order code and there is no way to be sure u get the new pads ...
They have to sell the old ones first .
So is there anyway for u to check those new HD6 pads and give impressions ? Or a way find them and buy for my self and measure them .
Thanks

 

[solderdude]

When the pads are on the market I can measure them.
Maybe in a year or so ...
I expect the results to be very similar to the original pads or perhaps closer to the Aliexpress pads.

 

[Agony]

When the pads are on the market I can measure them.
Maybe in a year or so ...
I expect the results to be very similar to the original pads or perhaps closer to the Aliexpress pads.

i see thank u .

 

[noel_fs]

Sonarworks reviewed the 660 S and this was their conclusion:

Conclusion
If you’re looking for a revolution, then this sadly isn’t it. The HD660 S is an attempt to evolve the HD650 into something more exciting. The problem is that much of what made the HD650 great for sound editing has been therefore lost. It’s still a decent headphone for recreational listening, because of extra sparkle up top. However unlike 15 years ago, there are other decent headphones around the 500$ mark.

the fact that these people mention hd6x0 for editing makes their words absolutely irrelevant, imagine using headphones for that

aside of that, honestly i think its the opposite, 660 are more suited for that type of usage because they are more transparent than the other driver, or less coloring would be a better way of saying it

 

[LaL]

That's because there is no peaking at 4kHz with HD660S.
There is around 5.5kHz. It is narrow and just around 2.5 to 3dB. It manifests itself exactly as Tyll describes in the video. There is a slight 'roughness' and some 'edgy' sound to it. Remove that small peak and the 'smoothness' in the treble is back.
When you look at the plot you posted and look at the green EQ trace it shows a 2.5dB dip so here too the dip is there.

660s
New Sennheiser video explaining the HD660s @3:48

 

[Agony]

660s
New Sennheiser video explaining the HD660s @3:48

Great Video ... for me its like that :
All HD 6 line amazing Timbre, Vocals, Low weight +
HD600 neutrality
HD650 smoothness
HD660s imaging and separation
Cant go wrong with any of these

 

[tomtrp]

HD660S has a bit less clarity compared to the HD650 and HD600.
As most folks 'complained' about the over the top clarity of the HD600 (presence in the 3kHz area) this was 'solved' in the HD660S.

So a HD650 with less clarity.

They can be EQ'ed but not with impressively loud subbass EQ'ed in.
The small peak around 5kHz should be EQ'ed and one can EQ 30Hz about +5dB, 60Hz +1dB

Hi, I wonder if the dip around 60hz real or really a measurement artifect? similar things happen in HD800/s measurement as well. I tried a 60hz 1db peak eq on HD800 (upon a 3-4db Harman13 style low shelf) and the bass sounds actually better.

 

[MayaTlab]

Hi, I wonder if the dip around 60hz real or really a measurement artifect?

See Rtings for measurements performed on real humans below a few hundred Hz :

Headphones v1.5 - Graph Tool

www.rtings.com

With passive, open over-ears such as the HD6... series (and quite a few other headphones as well), I personally can't reproduce these 60-100Hz wiggles when measuring them on my head with in-ear mics, but I can with flat plates.

 

[solderdude]

Hi, I wonder if the dip around 60hz real or really a measurement artifect? similar things happen in HD800/s measurement as well. I tried a 60hz 1db peak eq on HD800 (upon a 3-4db Harman13 style low shelf) and the bass sounds actually better.

That dip is caused by pad-bounce (I think Tyll coined that term) and is caused by the foam in the pads which absorbes energy at that frequency.
It thus is also measurement fixture and seal dependent as well as different on individual heads.
So don't EQ.
It is too narrow relative to the frequency and in practice may not be there or at the same frequency/depth anyway.

When you see one at 50Hz (and very small ones at 100Hz) you should ignore those as they are hum and not there in reality.

One should NEVER apply any exact EQ to headphones anyway. No matter on what fixture the measurements are made.
All of them are incorrect anyway. They are ONLY correct for that particular headphone on that particular fixture with a particular seating and seal.
Your circumstances, as well as preferences or actual copy of that headphone may differ.

Just look at various measurements (when you can find them), look at 'common' errors and apply some basic EQ/filtering based on that and adjust bass and perhaps treble from that EQ.

 

[tomtrp]

That dip is caused by pad-bounce (I think Tyll coined that term) and is caused by the foam in the pads which absorbes energy at that frequency.
It thus is also measurement fixture and seal dependent as well as different on individual heads.
So don't EQ.
It is too narrow relative to the frequency and in practice may not be there or at the same frequency/depth anyway.

When you see one at 50Hz (and very small ones at 100Hz) you should ignore those as they are hum and not there in reality.

One should NEVER apply any exact EQ to headphones anyway. No matter on what fixture the measurements are made.
All of them are incorrect anyway. They are ONLY correct for that particular headphone on that particular fixture with a particular seating and seal.
Your circumstances, as well as preferences or actual copy of that headphone may differ.

Just look at various measurements (when you can find them), look at 'common' errors and apply some basic EQ/filtering based on that and adjust bass and perhaps treble from that EQ.

thanks