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Sennheiser HD650 Review (Headphone)

half_dog

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A question. I was comparing the Elex review to this one and the high thd at 114dB of hd650 means it is clipping/peaking as Elex? Or HD650 still has some headroom?
 

phoenixsong

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A question. I was comparing the Elex review to this one and the high thd at 114dB of hd650 means it is clipping/peaking as Elex? Or HD650 still has some headroom?
Hmm I think it's kind of different- when the term "clipping" is used distortion is usually out of control, not just audible (such as when the Elex's drivers give out somewhere between 104-114dB). In terms of tolerable listening, the HD650 is probably better for beyond 114dB, though you shouldn't listen for long at these levels. The Elex would be better prior to its clipping point though (<104+dB)
 

half_dog

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Thanks! Yep, I don't plan to listen that loud, I'm just worried about how much headroom I have on HD650 to EQ its sub bass. :)
According to HD650 review at 88dB with some eq it is hitting 4.5% of thd and sometimes when mixing I pretty sure I play louder than that... BTW, I have been moving to Moondrop Starfield to check bass lines, it seems cleaner and well behaved, but I would prefer a over ear than in ear for "long" sessions.
 

phoenixsong

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Thanks! Yep, I don't plan to listen that loud, I'm just worried about how much headroom I have on HD650 to EQ its sub bass. :)
According to HD650 review at 88dB with some eq it is hitting 4.5% of thd and sometimes when mixing I pretty sure I play louder than that... BTW, I have been moving to Moondrop Starfield to check bass lines, it seems cleaner and well behaved, but I would prefer a over ear than in ear for "long" sessions.
Yup I just ordered an Aria as well! Iems usually have less bass distortion than open back headphones since being sealed and located close to the ear drums not much excursion is needed for bass to be perceived at appropriate levels
 

half_dog

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I haven't tried Aria yet. A review from Crinacle says it quite similar to the others siblings (KXXS and Starfield). I hope you enjoy it.
 

rcmo

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The veil is no myth but is not lifted by the foam other than in the mind/eyes of the modder.

Black driver with fresh pads, HD650 from 2017, veiled HD650 (2014)

These measurements seem to be quite different from the usual suspects' and Amir's. Are these compensated? I am particularly interested in those of 2014 edition as mine are even older.

Thanks.
 

phoenixsong

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These measurements seem to be quite different from the usual suspects' and Amir's. Are these compensated? I am particularly interested in those of 2014 edition as mine are even older.

Thanks.
Wow that's really old! I heard biodynamic drivers degrade over time, but what about regular ones? Do the magnets lose strength?
 

AdamG

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I suspect, but am not 100% certain that they use Rare Earth Magnets. “Rare-earth magnets and ceramic magnets are both types of permanent magnets; they are both composed of materials which, once given a magnetic charge, will retain their magnetism for years unless they become damaged, and lose a fraction of their performance every 100 years if maintained within their optimum working conditions., .”
 

phoenixsong

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I suspect, but am not 100% certain that they use Rare Earth Magnets. “Rare-earth magnets and ceramic magnets are both types of permanent magnets; they are both composed of materials which, once given a magnetic charge, will retain their magnetism for years unless they become damaged.”
A decade would be a trial of time indeed. Other than heat and impact, what would damage them? I once left my earphones in their black shell case on the dashboard of a car under the summer sun by accident- there was a smell of burnt plastic and its sound had changed when I retrieved it T.T
 

AdamG

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Melting point of the magnet metal to allow realignment of molecules. Drivers, wires, plastic components would be melted goo far before you reached the temps required to melt magnets. Some internal parts are pretty fragile and don’t like high heat. Anything over 130F and your chancing internal melting. Any of which could effect sound.
 

phoenixsong

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Melting point of the magnet metal to allow realignment of molecules. Drivers, wires, plastic components would be melted goo far before you reached the temps required to melt magnets. Some internal parts are pretty fragile and don’t like high heat. Anything over 130F and your chancing internal melting. Any of which could effect sound.
Oh yeah, just read that it's 80 degrees Celsius for Neodymium magnets
 

AdamG

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High quality Neodymium Magnets are able to operate well in temperatures up to 212 degrees F. There is a gradual drop in magnetic strength when the temperature rises above 176 degrees F, but this loss in magnetic strength recovers when the temperature falls back to normal levels. As long as the magnet does not melt to the point of shape lose.
 

phoenixsong

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High quality Neodymium Magnets are able to operate well in temperatures up to 212 degrees F. There is a gradual drop in magnetic strength when the temperature rises above 176 degrees F, but this loss in magnetic strength recovers when the temperature falls back to normal levels. As long as the magnet does not melt to the point of shape lose.
Haha well I probably shouldn't try to get credible 1-minute information bites from websites like these Temperature and Neodymium Magnets (kjmagnetics.com)
 

phoenixsong

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High quality Neodymium Magnets are able to operate well in temperatures up to 212 degrees F. There is a gradual drop in magnetic strength when the temperature rises above 176 degrees F, but this loss in magnetic strength recovers when the temperature falls back to normal levels. As long as the magnet does not melt to the point of shape lose.
Okay I looked again and it seems to be a mistake on my part due to inexperience in the field. It ultimately depends on the grade of the magnets itself
 

AdamG

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Okay I looked again and it seems to be a mistake on my part due to inexperience in the field. It ultimately depends on the grade of the magnets itself
I was in no way arguing your point. As you said it depends, not all magnets are equal. I was actually agreeing with you and did a poor job with my wording.
 

solderdude

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These measurements seem to be quite different from the usual suspects' and Amir's. Are these compensated? I am particularly interested in those of 2014 edition as mine are even older.
very different test method.

Horizontal deviations mean it is up or down from neutral. Horizontal is audible neutral (close to but not similar to Harman target)
See it as FR plots of amps and DACs where horizontal = flat/neutral similar to the 'deviation from Harman' plot but with measured SPL scale.

I heard biodynamic drivers degrade over time

Sennheisers are not biodynamic. Only Foster produced drivers are (Foster is OEM for quite a few brands that use the biodynamics)

A reduction in magnetic force will only lower efficiency.
 

Aperiodic

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The HD650 has thrived for many years in the fickle audio market because it was superbly engineered to begin with. I'd leave it alone, especially if still under warranty.

The 660 appears to be a 650 retrofitted with HD700 drivers, at least according to Tyll Hertsens in one of his last Innerfidelity reviews.
 

phoenixsong

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The HD650 has thrived for many years in the fickle audio market because it was superbly engineered to begin with. I'd leave it alone, especially if still under warranty.

The 660 appears to be a 650 retrofitted with HD700 drivers, at least according to Tyll Hertsens in one of his last Innerfidelity reviews.
It is not the HD700 drivers, but a new design sharing elements from it. The HD700 sounds quite bad by the way
 

Aperiodic

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Appreciate the follow up. Two different issues here. I continue to be skeptical of tweaks though. Different is not necessarily better.
 

rcmo

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It is not the HD700 drivers, but a new design sharing elements from it. The HD700 sounds quite bad by the way
I respectfully disagree about the HD700. It's a different beast to which I go back quite often. Be it mood or some album I just feel like listen the HD700.
 
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