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Sennheiser HD650 Review (Headphone)

Haze

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How would you go about implementing Amir's EQ in Foobar2000? Since I use ASIO Equaliser APO isn't an alternative for that.
 
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MathAudio Headphone EQ. This is a free DSP plug in and is fully compatible with ASIO. It allows up to 99 (!!!) filters and automatically sets pre=amp gain so that clipping does not occur. I use this DSP setup in combination with a Topping D10 DAC and a JDS Atom amp.

Google MathAudio to find it.
 

weasels

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These have been my go-to headphones for quite some time, but I've decided to replace them.

I listen to a lot of music with significant bass & sub-bass content. Before EQ, I was not happy with the sound, for reasons that Amir's measurements now make clear.

After EQ the bass is there, but so is distortion, particularly in sub-bass. I'm going to try the AKG 371's next, also thanks to Amir's measurements.
 

dc655321

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You can find many discussions about it at DIYAUDIO forum and the other places. Some people disagree with it, but in general, most people seem to agree with it.
Could you please provide links to any scientific literature on the topic?
 
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amirm

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Thread Starter #566

tamak

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like someone already mentioned , i found the upper bass on the hd6xx around 200hz really annoying to my ears and got it down by around -4db to -6db Q1 using adi-2 dac , besides that there were no other major issues to my ears but its not any near perfect either of course . to my impression the hype for this cans is way above the real performance . also i would say that i find the sound signature lean more towards the analitical side (not so balanced like many others claim , atleast to my taste )
 

Tachyon88

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like someone already mentioned , i found the upper bass on the hd6xx around 200hz really annoying to my ears and got it down by around -4db to -6db Q1 using adi-2 dac , besides that there were no other major issues to my ears but its not any near perfect either of course . to my impression the hype for this cans is way above the real performance . also i would say that i find the sound signature lean more towards the analitical side (not so balanced like many others claim , atleast to my taste )
What are you comparing them to ?
 

tamak

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What are you comparing them to ?
a dt770 80ohm . price wise i think they are also more or less in the same range (for a fair compare). i need to mention that i still enjoy my hd6xx with their different sound signature but i prefer the warmer sound cans more also i need to mention that out of the box the dt770 didnt need any single eq unlike the hd6xx
 

ishouldbeking

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a dt770 80ohm . price wise i think they are also more or less in the same range (for a fair compare). i need to mention that i still enjoy my hd6xx with their different sound signature but i prefer the warmer sound cans more also i need to mention that out of the box the dt770 didnt need any single eq unlike the hd6xx
Are you saying you find the DT770 sounds warmer than the 6xx? Our perception varies quite a bit by listener, and maybe we just describe sounds differently, but I don't think of the 770 as warm at all. It's got a lot of sub-bass, and surprisingly sharp dip in the upper-bass (which sucks out the warmth, in my opinion), fairly even mids, and the typical Beyerdynamic murder treble. I would say the 6xx is much more neutral by comparison (since the 770 has something of a U-shaped response, where the 6xx is more mid-focused), but I find the 6xx to be much warmer overall to the added presence of the upper-bass / lower-mid bump. They also sound more detailed on balance, despite the lack of detail-exaggerating treble that the Beyer has. After EQ, I find there's no comparison and the 6xx just sounds much better overall. I still own both and like the 770 as a closed back, I'm just surprised how different your experience seems to be. But it's that subjective experience that makes the hobby interesting, I suppose.
 

tamak

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Are you saying you find the DT770 sounds warmer than the 6xx? Our perception varies quite a bit by listener, and maybe we just describe sounds differently, but I don't think of the 770 as warm at all. It's got a lot of sub-bass, and surprisingly sharp dip in the upper-bass (which sucks out the warmth, in my opinion), fairly even mids, and the typical Beyerdynamic murder treble. I would say the 6xx is much more neutral by comparison (since the 770 has something of a U-shaped response, where the 6xx is more mid-focused), but I find the 6xx to be much warmer overall to the added presence of the upper-bass / lower-mid bump. They also sound more detailed on balance, despite the lack of detail-exaggerating treble that the Beyer has. After EQ, I find there's no comparison and the 6xx just sounds much better overall. I still own both and like the 770 as a closed back, I'm just surprised how different your experience seems to be. But it's that subjective experience that makes the hobby interesting, I suppose.
lets say that warmth is the relation between the upper bass and mids , the reason why i find the hd6xx not satisfying in that territoty is because the sound profile is super mid forward and there is almost no bass and what is there in the upper bass is bloated (i had to tune that down even further like -4db to sound more natural) so at the end it sound thin to me . the dt770 to me shine in that territoty , mids are a bit recessed and in line with the bass which is powerfull enough to feed them , the mids have bigger body .
the hd6xx tho is more detailed that i can give them and i wish i could love my hd6xx the way u do , im trying my best :)
on a side note i dont try to compare them to my dt770 i just think they sound and taste different but im a little dissapointed to be honest.
 

Robbo99999

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S.Sorry for the neophyte question, why do you have to use the preamp when using the equalizer?
If you use boost filters during your EQ then if you didn't apply a negative preamp to equal the largest positive boost (of the Total EQ Curve) then you'd potentially get digital clipping (distortion) in parts of the song where the digital level (at the boosted points) exceeds 0dBFS which is the maximum full signal (loudest) that can be transmitted digitally. A negative preamp lowers levels across the whole frequency spectrum to make sure that at no point the 0dBFS line (maximum signal) is crossed.
 
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lets say that warmth is the relation between the upper bass and mids , the reason why i find the hd6xx not satisfying in that territoty is because the sound profile is super mid forward and there is almost no bass and what is there in the upper bass is bloated (i had to tune that down even further like -4db to sound more natural) so at the end it sound thin to me . the dt770 to me shine in that territoty , mids are a bit recessed and in line with the bass which is powerfull enough to feed them , the mids have bigger body .
the hd6xx tho is more detailed that i can give them and i wish i could love my hd6xx the way u do , im trying my best :)
on a side note i dont try to compare them to my dt770 i just think they sound and taste different but im a little dissapointed to be honest.
I was feeling the same with graham slee amp. Now i use a JDS Atom and solved all the absence. What is your amp ?
Sorry i see you are using a rme. And yes 200hz is a little annoying vs dt770 and some others. Limited size drivers maybe the cause
 

MrOtto

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Mnyb

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MathAudio Headphone EQ. This is a free DSP plug in and is fully compatible with ASIO. It allows up to 99 (!!!) filters and automatically sets pre=amp gain so that clipping does not occur. I use this DSP setup in combination with a Topping D10 DAC and a JDS Atom amp.

Google MathAudio to find it.
Yes works equally well as Equalizer APO Tried MathAudio as a test of EQ in general its very easy to work with I recommend it, not used fb2k in 15 years and never an EQ program was rolling in 10 minutes. Btw I'm using EAPO because i want the headphone EQ for all audio on my PC .
If foobar was my only source i would be happy with MathAudio.

Also see Ending the Windows Audio Quality Debate | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum if you want to get free of some audio angst re windows10

Btw @amirm thanks for the review and eq curves .

Speaking of EQ curves for the HD650

* Amirm
*Oratory
*AutoEQ

Anyone else that has measured this headphone and conjured up some reasonable attempt to EQ it :)
Reasonable= some semblance of technical skill and organized scientific approach , so that the result could somewhat apply to others.
 

ishouldbeking

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I'm considering getting a pair of Sennheisers, I see HD650 is still available in some shops, but I have not yet decided on getting HD600, HD650 or HD660S, they are equally priced depending of the different retailer.
Here are some thoughts:
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/7w8htj/_/dtyeqie https://www.soundboxlab.com/head-phone/over-ear-headphone/hd600-vs-hd650-vs-hd660s/
I listen to a wide variety of music: piano, classical, electronic, classic rock.
For what it's worth, Sennheiser's view on their product line seems to have shifted over time. The 660 was meant to replace the 650, and the 650 was meant to replace the 600, but even though each iteration was intended to fix the previous model, they all introduced new issues that alienated a certain portion of the fanbase (see Tyll's legendary 660 review for a good example). That said, they've all continued to sell pretty well, and as far as I understand, Sennheiser plans to keep all three models in production at this point (they recently revamped the aesthetics of the 600 and 650, so it seems unlikely they'll get discontinued soon). Depending on your preferences, all of the Sennheiser 6 series are viable contenders. They all share the same general sonic profile--all are a somewhat warm take on "neutral" with an emphasis on the mids, all have an intimate soundstage (not particularly wide for an openback), and they generally have no real sub-bass and slightly muted treble--but each model has some slight differences:

main Sennheiser line:
- 600: less bass than the others, slightly shouty upper mids, not especially bright but beloved for their clear treble response (slightly less even treble than some of the others but it's known to sound quite pleasant and has more focus on the treble details). 300 ohms. In the US, typically costs $300-350. short version: generally beloved for its treble response.
- 650: slightly warmer / darker iteration of the 600. more *upper bass, warmer low-mids, still a touch of upper mid shout but less than the 600, and the treble is smoother overall than the 600. 300 ohms. In the US, typically costs $350-400 (but see the 6xx below). short version: known for lush mids and smooth presentation overall.
- 660: presented as a slightly more upscale model (and priced accordingly), the frequency response is similar to the 650 but actually slightly darker up top, although this oddly offset by a driver that's known to present a pretty extraordinary amount of detail given the tuning. besides a few random QC anecdotes I've seen online, the build is supposed to be slightly nicer. 150 ohms (easier to drive). In the US, typically priced around $500. short version: most expensive version, but many who own it love it; others are confused by the exceptionally dark tuning.

drop.com collaborations:
- 6xx: this has been confirmed via product teardowns to be a 650 with slightly different aesthetics. comes in matte navy colorway but otherwise sounds the same. 300 ohms. In the US, priced at $220 and is an incredible value proposition. Typically goes on sale for black friday / cyber monday and drops a bit lower (I got mine for $165 new a few years ago). short version: no reason to get the 650 when this exists for much cheaper. generally makes it hard to justify spending more for the 600 or 660. my general recommendation for anyone with an amp or an interest in getting one.
- 58x: unique creation at a lower price point and easier to drive. slightly more sub-bass than the others and less emphasis on the upper bass than the 650, slightly more treble than the 650/6xx/660, slightly less upper mid shout than the others. it is slightly less refined than the others overall: the treble has a slight grain or harshness that none of the other models have. 150 ohms (easier to drive). In the US, sells for $170 (also goes on sale; I got mine for $135 a while back). short version: insane value proposition, excellent starter audiophile cans for someone who doesn't have an amp or plan to get one. can be significantly improved with judicious EQ (people have compared against the 660 when both are EQ'd to the same target and not been able to tell the difference).
 
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