Sennheiser HD600 Review (Headphone)

[imagidominc]

The HD600 is my favorite headphone, and does sound different to me compared to my HD6XX. I hear more detail and treble, and I assumed that was because it was more neutral (or the treble was recessed on the 6XX)? I'm very surprised to see how similar they are. Goes to show as an audiophile you can't trust your ears all the time when it comes to measurements!

 

[NDRQ]

One thing I'd like to know though: Does anyone who owns both the HD650 and HD600 right now think they sound identical?

Few months ago i had both of them and he difference was clear.
The 650 is warm/dark sounding, while the 600 is neutral/borderline bright. The biggest difference was the bass, it was like night and day, 650 is kinda fat/little bloated, while 600 is really lean. Even a half deaf random guy can easily tell what is HD600 and what is 650. So this review is really strange

 

[Limopard]

Now I'm looking forward to a review of the 660s. This one is different, I'm quite sure. Still on the fence whether I keep it, I have time up to May 26th do decide. I like the added speed & "snap" but find it slightly grating sometimes. If I go with the 600, I save 120 €. Tough decision.

 

[Moonhead]

Lets be thankfully that Amir had the time to enlighten us, even though not everybody agrees. This forum is the best because of the knowledge Amir and many users provide us and let’s be what this place is, a bunch of gents.

 

[artheo]

I'm looking forward to a review of the HD660s too

 

[amirm]

It's also worth mentioning that you have been measuring used pairs without a fresh pad swap.

Why do you care? Do you only listen to headphones with fresh pads and have a fixture that locks the headphone onto your head in identical manner each time?

It's been shown in measurements (by both Crinacle and Solderdude) that pad wear drastically changes the sound on these headphones.

See above. And remember that there are channel to channel variations and unit to unit variations. None fall in category of "drastic."

 

[crinacle]

It says those are averaged readings so who knows what they represent. No measurement or listening test is accurate enough to show these headphones to be different. Just look at the two channels in each one of my measurements. Surely those two cups are more different than these two headphones!

Full six-sample reading for transparency:

I repeat again that this is six placements per headphone, 3 per channel. I don't think I'm picking up random error, at least for the units that I have measured.

 

[WickedInsignia]

Solderdude, Amir and Crinacle? This is the full shebang!
Thanks for the reference Crinacle. That increased shelf from 20-500hz is the difference I see in every comparison measurement and I'm shocked to see it absent from Amir's measurements, so I've defaulted to defending the side that proclaims there's an audible difference.

A HD600 with older pads is well within the range of tonal balance of a HD650 with 'newer' pads.

Indeed, the difference is so marginal that this can be proclaimed. The important thing to prospective buyers is that a HD600 with regular pad upkeep will sound brighter and "clearer" than a HD650 in any condition.
This is mostly what people have been arguing. Whether this is still true in 2021 models is yet to be determined.

 

[solderdude]

Haven't measured the latest models so cannot say.
Seeing that my early HD650 with fresh pads differs an audible 2dB above 1kHz from a 2017 with fresh pads shows that some changes have occured over the years. When taking the end 2018 batch in consideration all I can conclude is not all HD650 are created equal.
I expect the same to be true for the HD600 which has been in production about a decade longer.

Measurements may not be exact in an absolute sense but in case of the HD600 and HD650 regardless of the used test fixture the differences between them are measurable. Same construction, same size driver, same angling, same pads.

 

[Fernando]

Not even Sennheiser says they are different.

 

[imagidominc]

The always important question. Speaking of which, I'm waiting for Amir to do a video on how he calibrates the panthers.

Yes, unironically. I would love to see a video documenting Amir's collection of Pink Panther's.

 

[Grotti]

Haven't measured the latest models so cannot say.
Seeing that my early HD650 with fresh pads differs an audible 2dB above 1kHz from a 2017 with fresh pads shows that some changes have occured over the years. When taking the end 2018 batch in consideration all I can conclude is not all HD650 are created equal.
I expect the same to be true for the HD600 which has been in production about a decade longer.

Measurements may not be exact in an absolute sense but in case of the HD600 and HD650 regardless of the used test fixture the differences between them are measurable. Same construction, same size driver, same angling, same pads.

I am not able to measure the HPs by myself, but even when we admit small differences: could somebody prove his ability to hear those differences and to reproduce the result in a statistical significant way?

I honestly doubt that. But at least I am equipped with wooden ears obviously...

 

[imagidominc]

One thing I'd like to know though: Does anyone who owns both the HD650 and HD600 right now think they sound identical?

I own the 600 (2019 revision) and the 6XX. They sound different to me (not dramatically), but enough to make me prefer the treble and timbre of the 600. Pads on both are quite new. Please don't take my word as gospel tho. The difference between these two headphones seems (oh god, I can't believe this is controversial) insubstantial. You are still getting a great headphone, no matter which headphone you buy. And that's all that matter to people that are perusing this forum for info on which headphone to buy.

 

[solderdude]

Amirs raw measurements overlaid.

I can understand that Amir cannot tell his HD650 and HD600 apart.
Aside from some (very untrustworthy) differences above 10kHz I doubt anyone could reliably tell these 2 measured headphones apart with some casual headphone switching. One can expect even bigger differences when re-seating headphones.
Note: 2.5dB/div.
Between 30Hz and 6kHz these measure very closely the same within 1dB.

That doesn't mean HD600 and HD650 in general do not sound different.

Case closed ?

 

[WickedInsignia]

I am not able to measure the HPs by myself, but even when we admit small differences: could somebody prove his ability to hear those differences and to reproduce the result in a statistical significant way?

Well at least one person here conducted a successful double-blind test. It's not comprehensively recorded but at least there's that.
In addition, it's an often-touted audible difference that is very commonly acknowledged in the hobby. I know that doesn't count for much but it is pervasive enough to demand a robust testimony to truly disprove.

Case closed ?

If the result is that we are collectively inconclusive, then certainly. I doubt we've broken any ground here and the overwhelming consensus will still be that the 650 is the 600's warmer sibling. It should not bother many that this status is preserved. At worst, some people will save $150.

 

[solderdude]

The HD650 is a 'warmer' HD600 and because it is warmer in the lows the HD600 sound relatively 'clearer' and 'brighter' as well.
The drivers are not the same, the rest, aside from the paint job is.
Not all HD650 measured the same over the years (I think the most measured headphone in the world) and this will undoubtably also be true for the HD600.
Then there is tolerances and driver matching. The fact that drivers (have to be) matched is evidence enough not all drivers perform=measure=sound the same anyway.

 

[imagidominc]

(I think the most measured headphone in the world).

Not to sound like a sycophant, but I trust your judgment on these particular headphones, of which you have demonstrated you are extensively knowledgable about. I actually purchased my 600 directly after seeing you talk about their freq response in another thread. .

 

[Fernando]

@amirm The best thing is that you publish another review of another flagship, so we change the subject ...

 

[half_dog]

I had both, one HD600 bought in 2013 (batch from 2012 according to its marks on diaphragm), one HD650 bought from Thomann in March 2017(february batch), a pair of HD650 drivers bought from Audio Sancturay in January 2018 (batch from March 2017) and the most recent another pair of HD650 drivers bought from Audio Sancturay (again) this year (batch from March 2019, quite old, I have no ideia if this batch is already included in the new release). So, I spent 7 years with a HD600 and at least 2 years with 2 pair of HD650s.

I did some tests during all this time and I could tell all the HD650s apart (I did some measurements as well) from each other as well the HD600. About the HD650s, the one from Thomann had the shortest bass extension among this model but stills "higher" than the HD600 - although I have had two pair from close batchs, they sounded "differently" enough to tell apart. And more, besides the first pair from AS has more bass extension, it had a attenuation around 2kHz to 5kHz making it sounds a tad darker (see drive link bellow - it is possible to observe the bass extension differences as well). The last pair sounds the best for me, it is a mix from the two other, nice bass extension and no attenuation.

About the HD600 (I gave it last December few days before Christmas to my aunt - she's really happy BTW - so I have access to it): mid and above it sounds pretty similiar to the most recent HD650 but it barely has sub bass. It barely can reproduce the sub notes on Doin It Right from Daft Punk - that is the most notably difference.

Last year I was playing with some mods and one of them was to damp the back of the driver (I post about it here, @solderdude gave me some tips BTW) to reduce the 100Hz hump on HD650 - it seems to has no influence on sub bass extension if did with care. Even doing it (reducing around 2~3dB) I could tell apart all the 3 HD650s (modded) from the HD600 even if I force it with EQ or modifying. It seems its driver can not hit hard enough (I don't like this term but) seeming "slow", bringing a muddy sub bass when EQ'd. It can be my unit...

About the tests, sometimes I asked someone (ex-girlfriend cof cof) to mix the HD650 (2017) drivers in pair replacing them without I'm seeing and I was able to tell which was which. Once she put one driver from each batch in the headband, I couldn't tell exatly but this "mix" sounded kind of blurry. I wasn't able to do this with HD600 because I could see the different driver texture.

(Measurement of the two HD650 with same pads - yellow: HD650 febr 2017; violet: HD650 march 2017)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N8OR5yHro2PvLva5zj1KCyx_0l_qOcdp/view

That's my two cents...

 

[Patrick1958]

One thing I'd like to know though: Does anyone who owns both the HD650 and HD600 right now think they sound identical?

I own both and they sound very different. But then my HD 650 had some issues (see Solderdude's review at bottom) review.