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Sennheiser HD600 Review (Headphone)

Emlin

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Sorry, not sure what is circular. They are not purely functional, i.e. they are not just sound reproduction devices, therefore it is OK to expect them to look good. What am I missing?
You have not explained why you think that they are not purely sound reproduction devices.
 

isostasy

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You have not explained why you think that they are not purely sound reproduction devices.
Seriously? It doesn't need explanation. They are not purely functional simply by virtue of having a physical and visual form.
 

Robbo99999

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I don't care what my headphones look like, but if I had two headphones that sounded identical and were of identical comfort, then I'd choose the one that looks best if I had to keep just one of them - but really I don't care about aesthetics. Some people care about aesthetics of their headphones, I think that's misguided if it's prioritised above sound & comfort, but otherwise I have no problem with it. It's normal for people to want to own and look at beautiful things, just I don't place much weight on that re audio gear.
 

Mr. Widget

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Do you guys listen to your headphones whilst looking in the mirror or something? :D
If I did that the grotesque look of the headphones would be a rather secondary horror.

Since I don't find headphones listening particularly satisfying, if they are not hidden in a drawer, they are out where I can see them. I find they look best in the drawer.
 

rcstevensonaz

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I don't care what my headphones look like, but if I had two headphones that sounded identical and were of identical comfort, then I'd choose the one that looks best if I had to keep just one of them - but really I don't care about aesthetics. Some people care about aesthetics of their headphones, I think that's misguided if it's prioritised above sound & comfort, but otherwise I have no problem with it. It's normal for people to want to own and look at beautiful things, just I don't place much weight on that re audio gear.
Others do care about design, and that is OK as well.
 

Sennheiser

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Hello so clearing things up, this review is misleading.

You only measure with brand new original earpads, extremely worn out HD600 earpads can change some frequencies by up to 5db. Thats why old HD600 sound very similar to a HD650 with new earpads.

HD600 was made to create reference sound without coloration.

HD650 is a simple evolution based on peoples preferences as the years went on, louder listening, less fatigue, more bass.

But all in all one can clearly hear its the same family.

I have HD600 from 97/98 here, from 2003 and 2019.

With new pads they sound all the same.

Earpads got changed over the years and from "black driver" to the silver ones. The driver itself was not changed since the 580 jubilee went into production which became the HD600.

Thanks to Axel Grell who made them possible.

Greetings from Austria.
 

Mr. Widget

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You only measure with brand new original earpads, extremely worn out HD600 earpads can change some frequencies by up to 5db. Thats why old HD600 sound very similar to a HD650 with new earpads.

HD600 was made to create reference sound without coloration.
Wow... 5dB!
I assume that 20 year old pads probably need replacement even for someone like me who rarely use the phones. I've never changed my earpads... sounds like I should.
 

isostasy

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Hello so clearing things up, this review is misleading.

You only measure with brand new original earpads, extremely worn out HD600 earpads can change some frequencies by up to 5db. Thats why old HD600 sound very similar to a HD650 with new earpads.

HD600 was made to create reference sound without coloration.

HD650 is a simple evolution based on peoples preferences as the years went on, louder listening, less fatigue, more bass.

But all in all one can clearly hear its the same family.

I have HD600 from 97/98 here, from 2003 and 2019.

With new pads they sound all the same.

Earpads got changed over the years and from "black driver" to the silver ones. The driver itself was not changed since the 580 jubilee went into production which became the HD600.

Thanks to Axel Grell who made them possible.

Greetings from Austria.
How is it misleading?
 

Sennheiser

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Wow... 5dB!
I assume that 20 year old pads probably need replacement even for someone like me who rarely use the phones. I've never changed my earpads... sounds like I should.
Degradation happens slowly thats why you don't realize the change. I can guarantee that new pads will sound brighter and the bass will be tight again. It will sound like a brand new HD600/HD650.

Of course it keeps its sound, im not saying they sound bad its still sounding like a HD600, some even enjoy it more with used pads. But you will hear it instantly. This is where the veil myth originated.

You let try someone used HD 650 it will sound "veiled" especially if said person is used to bright headphones. Since factually the 6xx series do not have low treble its just that most headphones have boosted treble in comparison. It was a marketing trick, bright=more details at first a more wow effect that comes with a price. Listen to Beyerdynamic Dt 250 then go to the DT880. You will see what i mean, the DT 250 is not that far off the Sennheiser "Sound".
:)
 

Sennheiser

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How is it misleading?
Its inaccurate. Everybody who heard this headphones will tell you that. Its a simple fact since 2 decades. I explained exactly why seems like you didnt read.

Saying they sound the same is incompetence especially measuring with worn pads. The cup and the pads change the sound more than the drivers themselves. Put a HD660S driver into HD700 cups, you would be surprised since you get 95% of the original HD700 Sound with that. Since almost the same happened just reversed.;)
 

Sennheiser

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For example Akg 701 and the Akg 712. Its the same headphone the only difference are the gel pads.
 

solderdude

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For example Akg 701 and the Akg 712. Its the same headphone the only difference are the gel pads.

Nope... unless the differences below are product variances in the used driver :)
k712-bn-vs-k702-with-k7xx-pads-pu.png

K702 with K712 pads vs K712
There definitely is a 'family resemblance' in the drivers though, just like there is family resemblance in HD600 and HD650 drivers.

extremely worn out HD600 earpads can change some frequencies by up to 5db

I found about 2dB difference between worn pads and new pads (on HD650)

hd-650-r-old-pads-vs-new-pads.png


Below pad compression on HD660S2 (compression of new pads is not the same as aged foam though)
pad-compression-660s2.png

About 3dB difference here but the pads were compressed about by 9mm.


B.t.w. I concur with the criticism... HD600 should have been measured with new pads.
But... the headphone that was sent in did not come with new pads and was measured as it came in.
We can't expect people that send headphones in for measurements or having Amir buy fresh pads for every used headphone that is sent in.

HD600 and HD650 do not measure nor sound nor are the same. In this review they were close simply because the pads were worn.

I also agree that most of the 'my headphone mellowed out in the treble over the years' or 'the driver finally burnt in and now the treble is softer' is often caused by pad wear (softening of the foam).
 
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Sennheiser

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You need to learn to read.

Im not even gonna start on Akg believe what you want. How often were you at Akg in Austria back then?

I clearly said up to. The age of the pads play a huge difference. 5 is the max actually 6. But what do i know...

Now look who "owns" Akg and Harman.

But i was just here to correct that review not talking about "dead" brands. Even Sennheiser is actually Sonova.
 

solderdude

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Even Sennheiser is actually Sonova.

Interestingly enough... the HD600 and HD650 were around long before certain Sennheiser parts were bought by Sonova and even changes of production facility to Romania did not change the Sennheisers too much. So it has nothing to do with Sonova being the 'bank' for that Sennheiser department.
Only the new pads (cost saving ?) make a slight difference.

And AKG has been around for a long time before Harman and now Samsung got their hands on it.

Where are the plots showing the 6dB difference including the mm measurements (without pressure and with pressure ?) of the pads or is it anecdotal and how 'worn' were the pads ?
I know Sennheiser foam can completely fall apart and can become a sticky mess. No one will use those pads as they are very uncomfortable (pinnae touching the baffle)

You probably missed the part where I agreed with your criticism as well ?
 
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isostasy

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Its inaccurate. Everybody who heard this headphones will tell you that. Its a simple fact since 2 decades. I explained exactly why seems like you didnt read.

Saying they sound the same is incompetence especially measuring with worn pads. The cup and the pads change the sound more than the drivers themselves. Put a HD660S driver into HD700 cups, you would be surprised since you get 95% of the original HD700 Sound with that. Since almost the same happened just reversed.;)

In your original post you said 'You only measure with brand new original earpads'. I don't know if English is not your first language, so you may not appreciate this phrasing is ambiguous in that it can be interpreted in entirely opposite ways:

  • A command, i.e. 'You [must] only measure with brand new original earpads', implying you think @amirm didn't, and therefore the review is 'misleading'
  • An observation, i.e. '[I can see that] you only measure with brand new original earpads', implying you think @amirm should have measured some worn pads instead.

To confirm my point, @solderdude has then said 'I concur with the criticism... HD600 should have been measured with new pads.' suggesting he interpreted in the first way. However, in the original review @amirm writes 'I handed it to my son Karman who has been using it for years and replacing the worn out pads', suggesting that the pads probably fine, if not completely brand new. So it's not clear: do you think it's misleading because you believe amir measured with new pads instead of worn ones, which you think reflects the true usage of the headphone; or is it misleading because you believe amir measured with old pads and you think this is an unfair representation?

@solderdude is too gracious, he's provided good data and info as usual and you're just being rude.
 

Jarick

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I just picked up a pair of Sennheiser HD 600's this week with the sale at Amazon, which was only $249. I've had a pair of HD 6xx (same as HD 650 by all accounts) for about four years now and those have been my primary headphone. I also have a newer pair of HD 58x and a pair of HD 560s which I've used with my iPad for videos/music.

I swapped the old pads from my HD 6xx with the newer pads from the HD 58x, which seem to be the same as the pads for the HD 600. I can definitely tell a difference between the new and old pads sonically. The old pads are much more compressed and keep the drivers closer to the ear, and that gives a slightly louder sound with more apparent bass and less apparent treble. I'm guessing this is similar to the proximity effect of placing a dynamic microphone very close to a sound source which increases the low end response.

Anyways, here's my thoughts comparing them:

Sennheiser HD 600 is as advertised, very clean, clear, and balanced sounding. There's a little frequency roll off in the very low and high frequencies, but it generally sounds flat in a pleasing and musical way. It sounds very similar to my studio monitors except a little more present as it's right on the ears. I don't hear any harshness with these headphones, at least nothing like a set of Beyers.

Sennheiser HD 6xx (650) is very close, but with just a little more bass and a little smoother highs. I would guess a 1-2 dB difference in each frequency range, but still the same overall sonic signature as the 600. It's a little warmer and punchier basically. It also sounds slightly less clean, like it's a tiny bit more aggressive, but again not brighter.

Sennheiser HD 58x is noticeably warmer sounding than the other two headphones. It sounds like there's a further increase in bass and a further decrease in treble. As a result it's very thick sounding without as much detail and clarity. These are of course easier to drive than the other two, so good for mobile use. But they aren't in my opinion at the same level at least for reference use.

Sennheiser HD 560s is on the other end of the spectrum as the 58x. It's leaner and brighter sounding than the 600, with what I'm hearing as less low end and less low midrange, with boosted treble. It's not as boosted as a Beyer headphone but it's not veiled by any stretch. These are also more efficient than the 600/6xx. They also have a different construction as they are lighter weight, block even less ambient sound than the others, and the ear pads seem to have a bigger opening. They are pretty comfortable but definitely look and feel cheaper. Also, the stock cable sucks and a $15 replacement off Amazon is a big quality of life improvement.

Overall, I really like the HD 600 for reference use with my home studio/music equipment. The 6xx is extremely close and may be a better fit for someone purely listening for enjoyment. The 58x is good for mobile usage but IMO would rather have the 6xx and turn the volume up. The 560s would be a good open back alternative to the Beyer 990/880 if you don't want the big treble spike and recessed midrange.
 

Jarick

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Nope... unless the differences below are product variances in the used driver :)
k712-bn-vs-k702-with-k7xx-pads-pu.png

K702 with K712 pads vs K712
There definitely is a 'family resemblance' in the drivers though, just like there is family resemblance in HD600 and HD650 drivers.



I found about 2dB difference between worn pads and new pads (on HD650)

hd-650-r-old-pads-vs-new-pads.png


Below pad compression on HD660S2 (compression of new pads is not the same as aged foam though)
pad-compression-660s2.png

About 3dB difference here but the pads were compressed about by 9mm.


B.t.w. I concur with the criticism... HD600 should have been measured with new pads.
But... the headphone that was sent in did not come with new pads and was measured as it came in.
We can't expect people that send headphones in for measurements or having Amir buy fresh pads for every used headphone that is sent in.

HD600 and HD650 do not measure nor sound nor are the same. In this review they were close simply because the pads were worn.

I also agree that most of the 'my headphone mellowed out in the treble over the years' or 'the driver finally burnt in and now the treble is softer' is often caused by pad wear (softening of the foam).

Solderdude, really appreciate all the work you've done. I've found your graphs and reviews over the years and enjoy them.

What you posted on worn pads matches exactly with what I hear as well.

I really wish Sennheiser pads weren't $55 and lasted a lot longer!
 

Robbo99999

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I just picked up a pair of Sennheiser HD 600's this week with the sale at Amazon, which was only $249. I've had a pair of HD 6xx (same as HD 650 by all accounts) for about four years now and those have been my primary headphone. I also have a newer pair of HD 58x and a pair of HD 560s which I've used with my iPad for videos/music.

I swapped the old pads from my HD 6xx with the newer pads from the HD 58x, which seem to be the same as the pads for the HD 600. I can definitely tell a difference between the new and old pads sonically. The old pads are much more compressed and keep the drivers closer to the ear, and that gives a slightly louder sound with more apparent bass and less apparent treble. I'm guessing this is similar to the proximity effect of placing a dynamic microphone very close to a sound source which increases the low end response.

Anyways, here's my thoughts comparing them:

Sennheiser HD 600 is as advertised, very clean, clear, and balanced sounding. There's a little frequency roll off in the very low and high frequencies, but it generally sounds flat in a pleasing and musical way. It sounds very similar to my studio monitors except a little more present as it's right on the ears. I don't hear any harshness with these headphones, at least nothing like a set of Beyers.

Sennheiser HD 6xx (650) is very close, but with just a little more bass and a little smoother highs. I would guess a 1-2 dB difference in each frequency range, but still the same overall sonic signature as the 600. It's a little warmer and punchier basically. It also sounds slightly less clean, like it's a tiny bit more aggressive, but again not brighter.

Sennheiser HD 58x is noticeably warmer sounding than the other two headphones. It sounds like there's a further increase in bass and a further decrease in treble. As a result it's very thick sounding without as much detail and clarity. These are of course easier to drive than the other two, so good for mobile use. But they aren't in my opinion at the same level at least for reference use.

Sennheiser HD 560s is on the other end of the spectrum as the 58x. It's leaner and brighter sounding than the 600, with what I'm hearing as less low end and less low midrange, with boosted treble. It's not as boosted as a Beyer headphone but it's not veiled by any stretch. These are also more efficient than the 600/6xx. They also have a different construction as they are lighter weight, block even less ambient sound than the others, and the ear pads seem to have a bigger opening. They are pretty comfortable but definitely look and feel cheaper. Also, the stock cable sucks and a $15 replacement off Amazon is a big quality of life improvement.

Overall, I really like the HD 600 for reference use with my home studio/music equipment. The 6xx is extremely close and may be a better fit for someone purely listening for enjoyment. The 58x is good for mobile usage but IMO would rather have the 6xx and turn the volume up. The 560s would be a good open back alternative to the Beyer 990/880 if you don't want the big treble spike and recessed midrange.
Just a point on the HD560s - it has more bass than any of the other headphones you mentioned, and mids are not recessed (if anything they're pushed a bit too far forward):
HD560s Oratory.jpg

I'm not going to include frequency response pics of all the other headphones you mentioned, but you'll see that HD560s has more bass than any of the other ones you mentioned. You can check the frequency responses here:

I mean it's not super contentious me pointing this out to you, and it's interesting to hear your experiences, but I didn't want readers to get the wrong impression of some of the headphones you mentioned.
 
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