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Sennheiser HD600 Review (Headphone)

Jimbob54

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Yes, you’re right, I didn’t quite understand...The most important thing is the Voltage yeah...What do you think it's enough in order to drive correctrly HD 600?12/15/20 v?
Not even close

300 ohm 102dB /v

Use 110 spl, likely way more than you will listen at
 

dsnyder0cnn

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Hello Guys.
I'm venturing into the world of liquid music and for some time now I wanna create a desktop HEADPHONES system in order to listen to lossless music.. I would like to gather opinions on how to move in the future regarding any purchases.

As for headphones, I have pretty clear ideas about what kind of sound I’m looking for. A high impedance open headset with neutrality features, tonal coerency and balance..
I am seriously considering buying the Sennhesier HD600.. If I decide to take HD 600, I also have to consider buying a good SS amp (no valves) that pairs well with this headset.. A powerful amplifier of good construction, neutral and transparent tone could be a good solution for you?

At the moment on top of my preferences there are these two models:. LAKE PEOPLE G100. LAKE PEOPLE G111

If I have correctly interpreted the specifications, the Lake People G 111 should have no difficulty in piloting the HD600.. The HD600 are high impedance headphones who needs a lot of "current". The Lake People has surplus power and voltage (it has a toroidal transformer powered) .
Output power 300 ohm-900 mw. Balanced/unbalanced outputs. Too bad for the lack of an "external" selector to adjust the gain.

Did someone try it coupled with an HD600?

Thanks To all
Good answers so far in response to your post, but I have a couple of questions:
  • Why do you care about the impedance of your headphones?
    From what I understand, the high impedance design is suitable to pro installations where multiple headphones may be in use in a control room. With longer runs, higher impedance and lower current are advantageous, but none of this matters for a consumer / at-home situation.
  • Why the preference for solid-state vs tubes?
    Here, I'm just curious. I prefer solid-state too because it tends to be lower maintenance and a bit less fussy, but there's some really nice sounding tube gear out there that may be worth exploring.
Finally, you're here on ASR, so I would take advantage of the massive database of detailed measurements that Amir has posted on this site to inform your decision. The one Lake People amp that has been reviewed did not measure particularly well:


But, there are lots more, available under rankings that are worth exploring:



Screen Shot 2021-09-28 at 11.13.26 AM.png


Just use the filters for Type and/or Tags to see what's there. Click on the SINAD (Metric Value) for the review. Any of these would probably be better than the Lake People models you're asking about.
 

Pepper81

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In fact,reading my words it might seem that I prefer high impedance Headphone -any given day -over a low impedance headphone but it is not quite so.
The reason I chose To purchase HD600 is beacuse in that range of price (Under 400 euro) Is probably he one with the ideal characteristics for my needs
Yeah, HD 600 is High impedence and not particularly sensitive with a relatively small harmonic distortion
I know HD 600 lacks in the bass region but has greats mids and the treble is quite well-balanced and neutral.
Now,I have to pair them with a Good Amplifier...I am oriented towards the purchase of Lake People G111 but I've to reconsider..
I've a question: The voltage is more important than Output power?
Based on Graphs, HD 600 require 200 mw if I listen to 120 db (VERY LOUD) and 7.7 V
Lake People has power and Volt in excess...It's 400 Euro, I wanna be sure It's not necessary an Over-sized amp to drive HD 600 at their full potential
 
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Skinner001

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Good answers so far in response to your post, but I have a couple of questions:
  • Why do you care about the impedance of your headphones?
    From what I understand, the high impedance design is suitable to pro installations where multiple headphones may be in use in a control room. With longer runs, higher impedance and lower current are advantageous, but none of this matters for a consumer / at-home situation.
  • Why the preference for solid-state vs tubes?
    Here, I'm just curious. I prefer solid-state too because it tends to be lower maintenance and a bit less fussy, but there's some really nice sounding tube gear out there that may be worth exploring.

For the first one, I don't, it's not an indicator of sound quality.

For the second, and more interesting for me to talk about. Simply speaking, it's a superior way of doing amplification. If you define amplification as what it formally is - take signal A, amplify it without messing with it - just give me more A.

Imagine you had a camera. Taking nice clean pictures. But you want to zoom in on a scene. You add lenses and zoom in. Do you want the same clean image - or do you want some noise and trash added to the scene when you use the lenses - e.g. the lens has a bunch of scratches on it?

Seems pretty clear that you would not like a scratchy lens - why is it so difficult for people to understand I don't want a noisy, distorted signal and that solid state is a better way of going about it. Not saying you can't get clean amplification with tubes - but SS is easier to do well, cheaper to do well, and the products are more reliable in general.

Now, liking certain types of distortion is all well and fine. Individual differences are real, even if we can agree on an average target - there's enough individual flavor there for people to tune things to their preferences.

Nowadays, I see no reason to add that flavor by hardwiring it in the chain via poorly measuring gear. If I have a clean, transparent foundation, I can tune it how I want (well, my preference is to get the cleanest possible signal to the headphones so doesn't apply to me really but in general it does).

It's quite a simple argument.

Further, I find subjectivists are walking into a wall of contradictions when arguing that amps and dacs should indeed sound different - and then saying "trust your ears" or "it may sound better to you". Well, that means that any subjectivist review is completely invalid - and non-informative - if my ears are the only judge of whether something is good - then your ears are unimportant. Now add to that the fact that audiophile terms are used inconsistently even between reviews of the same reviewer - let alone between reviewers (I'm actually working on designing a study to check consistency of use across popular reviewers for the same products and across products to quantify this inconsistency).

Here's an example, Zeos loves class A amps because they're "warm, and wide and lush and shit rainbows" - when he was reviewing the FA-10 after reviewing the FA-12 from Flux Labs - he failed to see in the documentation that it was also a class A amp just like the FA-12. When talking about the FA-10 he was convinced it was not class A - he still liked it for the power you get and for it being clean etc. but only if it was class A it would have it all... Well, it is class A and he can't tell the fucking difference without knowing in advance - or in this case - he inferred a difference where there was none.

Of course, fit, looks, feel, and sound characteristics will influence whether you specifically like something - an objective measurement won't tell you for sure that you'll be happy. However, if something measures as clean in terms of noise and distortion and you can see the frequency response - and you have enough experience to know what your personal target is - you can make informed decisions what to demo (or buy outright if you can't demo).
 

Jimbob54

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In fact,reading my words it might seem that I prefer high impedance Headphone -any given day -over a low impedance headphone but it is not quite so.
The reason I chose To purchase HD600 is beacuse in that range of price (Under 400 euro) Is probably he one with the ideal characteristics for my needs
Yeah, HD 600 is High impedence and not particularly sensitive with a relatively small harmonic distortion
I know HD 600 lacks in the bass region but has greats mids and the treble is quite well-balanced and neutral.
Now,I have to pair them with a Good Amplifier...I thought Lake P
I think you're massively overstating both the need for and impact of an amp. Don't get the lake people for anything other than aesthetics or placebo.
 

solderdude

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Yes, you’re right, I didn’t quite understand...The most important thing is the Voltage yeah...What do you think it's enough in order to drive correctrly HD 600?12/15/20 v?

8V is enough, a few dB extra headroom = 12V
An amp I designed specifically for driving high imp. headphones has 14V output voltage (700mW/300 ohm) and about 20dB gain.
 
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dsnyder0cnn

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I think you're massively overstating both the need for and impact of an amp. Don't get the lake people for anything other than aesthetics or placebo.
Well…in my experience, it's difficult to drive the HD600's to satisfying levels from the headphones jack on a smartphone or laptop, so I think a more powerful DAC/Amp or dedicated amp is justified. But, agreed that there's no need to spend more than a few hundred euros on one. The oft-mentioned THX AAA 789 or similar should be more than adequate.
 

Jimbob54

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Well…in my experience, it's difficult to drive the HD600's to satisfying levels from the headphones jack on a smartphone or laptop, so I think a more powerful DAC/Amp or dedicated amp is justified. But, agreed that there's no need to spend more than a few hundred euros on one. The oft-mentioned THX AAA 789 or similar should be more than adequate.
Exactly my first recommendation. The Atom or similar would be ample too.
 

Pepper81

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DAC will be the last component I will buy and will go to complete the audio chain.

Choosing the DAC might not be that easy.. I have not yet set a budget, but the choice will almost certainly fall on a mid-range model (below 500 euros). One of the largest manufacturers of conversion chips is ESS, which with its SABRE 9038 models etc is present in many Dacs.. It is often said that the Chipset itself says nothing about the quality of the DAC, which depends on the implementation (the circuit) in which the chip has been integrated and the output stage. My question is this: Every chip (Sabre, Burr Brown, Wolfson) has its own "signature" or not?
 

solderdude

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DAC is easy. Just buy one with the desired functionality, filter options, connectivity and that has at least decent measurements and the looks you want.

DAC chip is irrelevant.
 

Pepper81

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For the first one, I don't, it's not an indicator of sound quality.

For the second, and more interesting for me to talk about. Simply speaking, it's a superior way of doing amplification. If you define amplification as what it formally is - take signal A, amplify it without messing with it - just give me more A.

Imagine you had a camera. Taking nice clean pictures. But you want to zoom in on a scene. You add lenses and zoom in. Do you want the same clean image - or do you want some noise and trash added to the scene when you use the lenses - e.g. the lens has a bunch of scratches on it?

Seems pretty clear that you would not like a scratchy lens - why is it so difficult for people to understand I don't want a noisy, distorted signal and that solid state is a better way of going about it. Not saying you can't get clean amplification with tubes - but SS is easier to do well, cheaper to do well, and the products are more reliable in general.

Now, liking certain types of distortion is all well and fine. Individual differences are real, even if we can agree on an average target - there's enough individual flavor there for people to tune things to their preferences.

Nowadays, I see no reason to add that flavor by hardwiring it in the chain via poorly measuring gear. If I have a clean, transparent foundation, I can tune it how I want (well, my preference is to get the cleanest possible signal to the headphones so doesn't apply to me really but in general it does).

It's quite a simple argument.

Further, I find subjectivists are walking into a wall of contradictions when arguing that amps and dacs should indeed sound different - and then saying "trust your ears" or "it may sound better to you". Well, that means that any subjectivist review is completely invalid - and non-informative - if my ears are the only judge of whether something is good - then your ears are unimportant. Now add to that the fact that audiophile terms are used inconsistently even between reviews of the same reviewer - let alone between reviewers (I'm actually working on designing a study to check consistency of use across popular reviewers for the same products and across products to quantify this inconsistency).

Here's an example, Zeos loves class A amps because they're "warm, and wide and lush and shit rainbows" - when he was reviewing the FA-10 after reviewing the FA-12 from Flux Labs - he failed to see in the documentation that it was also a class A amp just like the FA-12. When talking about the FA-10 he was convinced it was not class A - he still liked it for the power you get and for it being clean etc. but only if it was class A it would have it all... Well, it is class A and he can't tell the fucking difference without knowing in advance - or in this case - he inferred a difference where there was none.

Of course, fit, looks, feel, and sound characteristics will influence whether you specifically like something - an objective measurement won't tell you for sure that you'll be happy. However, if something measures as clean in terms of noise and distortion and you can see the frequency response - and you have enough experience to know what your personal target is - you can make informed decisions what to demo (or buy outright if you can't demo).
Thank you for
thank you for contributing to the discussion
Can I ask you what's your Setup?
 

Pepper81

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DAC is easy. Just buy one with the desired functionality, filter options, connectivity and that has at least decent measurements and the looks you want.

DAC chip is irrelevant.
I'v read that For instance Topping D50 has problem with Coaxial Connection
For Me this is a problem because I wanna Use Coax instead of USB or Optical
 

solderdude

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You cannot use USB or you won't use USB or optical because someone said it sounded better ?
Is for fear of ground loop issues ?
 

Pepper81

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You cannot use USB or you won't use USB or optical because someone said it sounded better ?
Is for fear of ground loop issues ?
My source wil be XDUUO X10 Tii
I'd like to use Coax to connect DAC
I don’t speak for direct experience because I have never used a coaxial, but according to what you read on various forums,the sound changes depending on whether you choose.
it would be very interesting to hear your views on this based on your experiences
 

solderdude

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My source wil be XDUUO X10 Tii
I'd like to use Coax to connect DAC
I don’t speak for direct experience because I have never used a coaxial, but according to what you read on various forums,the sound changes depending on whether you choose.
it would be very interesting to hear your views on this based on your experiences

I have no experience with X10 Tii.
I would use the USB output or AES EBU.
All digital outputs (AES EBU, Coax and optical) output the exact same signal but in a different 'form' and there is no sound quality difference.
That said, not all DACs have equally good receivers and may have issues.
USB uses a much more robust way of data delivery who's clock is not directly derived from the digital signal.
The AES EBU, Coax and optical signals carry data and clock which are leading and thus is a 'lesser' signal.
Long ago USB audio was not that great and had issues and coax would be better. These days USB is way better.
 
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dsnyder0cnn

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Gustard X16?I’ve heard of it but I don’t know anyone who has it..Is it a Good Dac?Would you please tell me your experience with that?You use it paired with HD600?
I started a bake-off between the Topping D90SE (#1 in Amir's ranking) and Gustard X16 (#3 in the ranking) in this thread:


I posted a comparison of the filter options on both DACs here:

 

Pepper81

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Is the HD600 a headphone that gives a lot of detail when listening to a song?
I mostly listen to 70’s blues/rock and most of those recordings are of low quality.
Masters from the '60's and '70's used analog tape, and it' common to hear (CD transfer and Vinyl) "amount of hiss" and over saturation in the higher frequency range.
I would like to understand if HD600 will put even more in evidence all these imperfections to the point of making the whole
completely unplayable, or not.
 

Jimbob54

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Is the HD600 a headphone that gives a lot of detail when listening to a song?
I mostly listen to 70’s blues/rock and most of those recordings are of low quality.
Masters from the '60's and '70's used analog tape, and it' common to hear (CD transfer and Vinyl) "amount of hiss" and over saturation in the higher frequency range.
I would like to understand if HD600 will put even more in evidence all these imperfections to the point of making the whole
completely unplayable, or not.
At this point I think you really need to listen to a pair. Buy from someone that offers an easy, no quibble exchange policy like Amazon.
 
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