Sennheiser HD560s Owner's Thread.

[usern]

It's probably wires as they need to be some what loose to account for driver excursion. I can get my headphones to slightly rattle when moving them around and playing loud with that generator, but as easily can 'shake it off'.

 

[sblrog]

Hehe, why are you asking me if the K702 sounds anything like the HD560s if you also own both, ha! Naa, but no, they're not remotely similar at stock without EQ, but of course they're more similar if both are EQ'd to the same Target Curve (say Harman Curve). There's still differences though, even if you've had your individual K702 unit & HD560s unit measured by Oratory (I have) which is then taking out the variable of unit to unit variation in terms of how accurately they've been EQ'd to the Harman Curve.....yes so even then they don't sound exactly the same. The K702 is a more expansive soundstage than the HD560s, but I find the HD560s to image with greater positional clarity within that stage even though it's a smaller overall stage. The HD560s also does bass with greater clarity/definition than the K702.

I've recently bought a miniDSP EARS headphone measuring device which is enabling me to explore/EQ the 3 units of K702 that I own with greater accuracy, and also the 3 units of HD560s I own, so the jury is a little bit still out for me on which I prefer the most.....it had been the HD560s, but work with the miniDSP EARS is potentially changing that.....I haven't done enough investigation yet to finally nail it down, but I'll say the HD560s for now as my overall favourite, it's certainly a better buy as the unit to unit variation is less, so it's a lot more solid buying option for people out there without measuring devices (basically EVERYONE then!).....it's also a more reliable headphone in terms of failure, the K702 fails on the solder eventually, at which point you have to solder the wires back on - if you solder them on properly they won't fail, but they don't solder them on optimally at the K702 factory.

Wow, do you still have 3 each of K702 and HD560s? Do you use the miniDSP EARS to get closer to Harman or more to guide your personalized tweaks (since Harman is based on GRAS)?

 

[Robbo99999]

Wow, do you still have 3 each of K702 and HD560s? Do you use the miniDSP EARS to get closer to Harman or more to guide your personalized tweaks (since Harman is based on GRAS)?

K702 is on offer as of today, for £79, lowest price ever, so I bought another one, that's 4 units now! Sean Olive did a measurement of a new K702 recently and it showed very good compliance to the Harman Curve, so I wanted to buy a new one to see if they've changed the frequency response. I can measure it on my miniDSP EARS and I'll be able to ascertain that. Because Oratory measured my K702 I'm able to do an accurate conversion for the K702 headphone on miniDSP EARS as I can measure the same unit on that rig, but I can't for any other headphone. So for K702 I use my converted miniDSP measurements to EQ. For HD560s I use the Oratory EQ and use his customisation filters to tune by ear listening to music - ended up putting 1dB more bass and toned down the shouty region by about a dB and increased the broad 7kHz by about a dB, and put in a small sharp notch at 8200Hz to remove some harshness I identified, also removed his High Shelf filter above 10kHz.

 

[sblrog]

K702 is on offer as of today, for £79, lowest price ever, so I bought another one, that's 4 units now! Sean Olive did a measurement of a new K702 recently and it showed very good compliance to the Harman Curve, so I wanted to buy a new one to see if they've changed the frequency response. I can measure it on my miniDSP EARS and I'll be able to ascertain that. Because Oratory measured my K702 I'm able to do an accurate conversion for the K702 headphone on miniDSP EARS as I can measure the same unit on that rig, but I can't for any other headphone. So for K702 I use my converted miniDSP measurements to EQ. For HD560s I use the Oratory EQ and use his customisation filters to tune by ear listening to music - ended up putting 1dB more bass and toned down the shouty region by about a dB and increased the broad 7kHz by about a dB, and put in a small sharp notch at 8200Hz to remove some harshness I identified, also removed his High Shelf filter above 10kHz.

The HD560s's are now trailing in the count . Is the 8200 Hz a resonant peak? How narrow is the notch?

 

[Jimbob54]

The HD560s's are now trailing in the count . Is the 8200 Hz a resonant peak? How narrow is the notch?

And how does one locate an 8200 peak without listening to tones/ sweeps?

 

[Robbo99999]

The HD560s's are now trailing in the count . Is the 8200 Hz a resonant peak? How narrow is the notch?

Ha, that's right, so that'll be x3 HD560s and x4 K702 - it's a bit nuts, but I've always bought all the K702 below £100 for each one whilst they were on sale (one for sure I got for £80 something and this last one ordered today for £79)......I think they're both good headphones, but the HD560s is a more reliable and solid headphone in many ways than the K702, but the K702 is fun in it's soundstage and has a nice frequency response that is easily EQ'd.

About the 8200Hz peak on the HD560s - on the measurement it's a small peak (pic following), but I've done some slow sine tone sweeps using both various headphone models and also anechoic flat speakers and I have a really large boost in perceived loudness between 8000-12000Hz - basically my natural hearing has for some reason a high sensitivity and amplification in that zone, so experimentation to reduce the measured peak at 8200Hz yielded a more pleasurable listening experience for me. I'm trying to remember some of my impressions of the change as it was a long time ago, but I think I remember an increased perception of smoothness (reduction of small amount of harshness) and I also remember it enhanced the soundstage & layering in the headphone to some degree. I know that's all very subjective though. Here's that pic I promised showing the 8200Hz peak:

It so happens that the 7000Hz broad boost (about 1dB) I implemented via listening combined with a little 8200Hz notch filter takes out that step and peak you can see from 7000 to 8000Hz, and basically tilts that section of the curve at the same angle as the down slope of the Harman Curve. I hadn't intended that to work out that way actually, because I did the 7000Hz broad peak filter tweak by ear listening to music, and then based on the measurement I wanted to try taking out that that 8200Hz peak which I eyeballed a filter (rather than creating it in REW) - later when I put all my tweaks through REW against the measurement I saw that the end result was basically taking that 7000-8200Hz stepped area away and converting it into the same downslope of the Harman Curve in that area. If I remember rightly it didn't sit on the Harman Curve though, instead it just tracked the Harman Curve about a dB or two lower. This was my HD560s that I tweaked by ear listening to music with Oratory EQ as a starting point.

 

[AC1]

Just bought the Sennheiser HD 560S. Mid-range is harsh. Hopefully burn-in is a real thing.

 

[Robbo99999]

Just bought the Sennheiser HD 560S. Mid-range is harsh. Hopefully burn-in is a real thing.

That's a potentially valid thing to experience with this headphone, as per the Oratory measurements & EQ, depending on how much your unit of headphone varies around his measurement:

You can see there is on average some excess around 1-2kHz as well as 4-6kHz which could make it sound harsh for you without EQ. Me personally I can abide the HD560s without EQ for non-critical listening and it's one of the best headphones out there without EQ, but I prefer to use it with EQ whenever I have the opportunity.

EDIT: the burn-in you mention isn't particularly real. The main component of "burn-in" is just your brain adjusting to the new frequency response with increased exposure, but there's no reason to put up with that.....I'd EQ it just as I would with every headphone out there in the world! (well almost any headphone!).

 

[AC1]

That's a potentially valid thing to experience with this headphone, as per the Oratory measurements & EQ, depending on how much your unit of headphone varies around his measurement:
View attachment 276397

The frequency response looks exemplary linear to me, except then for the fall of 10 dB (!!!) around 9 to 10 kHz. Looks to me that this is the actual problem.

 

[Robbo99999]

The frequency response looks exemplary linear to me, except then for the fall of 10 dB (!!!) around 9 to 10 kHz. Looks to me that this is the actual problem.

Actually that notch at 9 to 10kHz is totally fine, that's just a natural peculiarity of a human ear, it has a natural notch there, so if your headphone doesn't have a notch there then that's more likely indicative of a problem. Yep, so that specific point you bring up is not related at all to any problem nor your original post.

 

[MayaTlab]

The frequency response looks exemplary linear to me, except then for the fall of 10 dB (!!!) around 9 to 10 kHz. Looks to me that this is the actual problem.

That could be a by-product of the testing equipment or methodology used and will in effect be different once the headphones are on your head - and to a certain degree it should be different on your head. Generally speaking, for large open dynamic over-ears like the 560S, don't look in detail at the graph past 8kHz (and probably past 4-5kHz actually), although some exceptions can be made.

Just bought the Sennheiser HD 560S. Mid-range is harsh.

That's also my opinion. For my sample, the entire response up to 3-4kHz is tilted a little bit brighter than I'd expect given the error curve above, vs. a bunch of other headphones equalised to harman, according to in-ear measurements. Whether that is a sample variation or a coupling issue, I don't know.

Hopefully burn-in is a real thing.

Pads wearing out over time can affect the response, particularly above 4-5kHz for the 560S, but I would not expect burn-in to have any effect.

 

[Robbo99999]

That's also my opinion. For my sample, the entire response up to 3-4kHz is tilted a little bit brighter than I'd expect given the error curve above, vs. a bunch of other headphones equalised to harman, according to in-ear measurements. Whether that is a sample variation or a coupling issue, I don't know.

Maybe that's why one of my best HD560s modified Oratory EQ's uses a linear -1.25dB linear slope from 20Hz-20kHz on top of his normal EQ.

 

[AC1]

In case there is such a thing as burn-in, I'm playing some Billie Eilish while I'm doing other things. Maybe that heavy Billie bass will shake them loose.

According to the compensated graph we're dealing with a bump of only 2 dB from 1 to 2 kHz, which is not all that different from the HD 600.

 

[DarrylG]

Has anyone bought a replacement headband cushion for the 560S? If so, where did you but it?

 

[Robbo99999]

In case there is such a thing as burn-in, I'm playing some Billie Eilish while I'm doing other things. Maybe that heavy Billie bass will shake them loose.

According to the compensated graph we're dealing with a bump of only 2 dB from 1 to 2 kHz, which is not all that different from the HD 600.

Just EQ them if they don't sound right.

 

[AC1]

Just EQ them if they don't sound right.

According to the audioscience review they sound maybe a bit too bright and there's not enough bass. You can EQ them but it isn't really necessary. I'm not much of an EQ guy since I constantly switch headphones.

Did not expect adding 2 dB at 2580 Hz. That's mids. There's already enough of that!

 

[Robbo99999]

According to the audioscience review they sound maybe a bit too bright and there's not enough bass. You can EQ them but it isn't really necessary. I'm not much of an EQ guy since I constantly switch headphones.

Did not expect adding 2 dB at 2580 Hz. That's mids. There's already enough of that!

Even though I value Amir's reviews, I don't think his EQ process is optimal, it's done by eyeball for a start. Best to use Oratory EQ's as a starting point. But sure, you don't have to EQ if you don't want to, but you were complaining about non-optimal sound - well EQ is designed to change that, it's up to you whether you do it or not.

 

[Phoney]

According to the audioscience review they sound maybe a bit too bright and there's not enough bass. You can EQ them but it isn't really necessary. I'm not much of an EQ guy since I constantly switch headphones.

Did not expect adding 2 dB at 2580 Hz. That's mids. There's already enough of that!

This EQ is for HD650. You're talking about HD560s right?

Edit: There seem to be a spelling mistake in Amirs EQ.

 

[AC1]

Yes, it's a typo.

 

[Soria Moria]

Is it worth getting the 560S over the 600 if I only plan on EQing it as closely as possible to the Harman target using the 7-band EQ of my RME? If you're wondering why I'm not going to use software is just because I have a lot of problems with it. Annoying having to fix it after every Windows update and I can't get it to work with Foobar. The reasons why I'm interested in the 560S is that it is much cheaper (I can get it for $170) and it supposedly has better imaging and more space for your ears as a result of the angled drivers.