Seeking streamer advice for Tidal but also Netflix, YouTube, etc.

[Audiotistic]

Hello! Is a stand alone music streamer a better choice than a Nvidia Sheild (with or without an audio extractor) if audio quality via Tidal is the priority?

The thing is, along with Tidal, I would also like to watch Netflix, YouTube, Paramount, etc. Can a Nvidia Shield Pro satisfy all of my needs or would it be wiser (in terms of sound quality) to only use it (or Apple TV) for Netflix, YouTube, etc... Then get a separate streamer for Tidal? Please don't focus too much on recommending a specific streamer as much as the initial question of Nvidia vs stand alone streamer. Thank you so much for any advice you can offer.

 

[qirex]

Note: I have no direct experience with the Shield.

It being an Android box I think some of the same caveats about OS-level audio resampling and the like that you see on phones and DAPs will apply, but I hope an owner can chime in to be sure. I've been very happy with the A/V performance of my Apple TV (although the native Tidal app isn't exactly great) but of course you don't get the software flexibility like with Android.

It's also 6 year old hardware at this point, and Nvidia seems too busy grifting the whole planet selling tulip chip futures to care about making a new one the moment.

 

[Audiotistic]

Note: I have no direct experience with the Shield.

It being an Android box I think some of the same caveats about OS-level audio resampling and the like that you see on phones and DAPs will apply, but I hope an owner can chime in to be sure. I've been very happy with the A/V performance of my Apple TV (although the native Tidal app isn't exactly great) but of course you don't get the software flexibility like with Android.

It's also 6 year old hardware at this point, and Nvidia seems too busy grifting the whole planet selling tulip chip futures to care about making a new one the moment.

I love my Apple TV as well... Other than the fact it chokes the audio quality. From what I understand the Nvida has "audio passthrough" so it "apparently" allows for max quality on Tidal... But that's what I'm trying to learn/confirm as I have my doubts. This would all be much easier if one could achieve hi res/lossless audio via Apple TV lol.

 

[Zgrado1970]

I love my Apple TV as well... Other than the fact it chokes the audio quality. From what I understand the Nvida has "audio passthrough" so it "apparently" allows for max quality on Tidal... But that's what I'm trying to learn/confirm as I have my doubts. This would all be much easier if one could achieve hi res/lossless audio via Apple TV lol.

I think Apple TV resamples everything 24/48 kHz. How does that choke audio quality?

 

[JeremyFife]

Inaudibly

 

[Audiotistic]

I think Apple TV resamples everything 24/48 kHz. How does that choke audio quality?

I am not an engineer nor do I know much about these things but I thought 24/192 was hi res/lossless and therefore better than 24/48.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

I am not an engineer nor do I know much about these things but I thought 24/192 was hi res/lossless and therefore better than 24/48.

For playback in the home, anything better than 14 bits probably has enough dynamic range for music. 16 bits is better, obviously and almost certainly more than enough domestically. You only need 24 bits or 32 bits or floats if you are editing, mixing etc. after which you can comfortably down-convert to 16 bits

48kHz sample rate means audio can extend to a sharp-filtered 24kHz. That's way better than almost all (probably all) adults can hear. There are theoretically good arguments that consider 44kHz sample rate is OK, but a bit tight. 48kHz (pro audio) would have been more sensible for CD.

Far more critical to sound quality is how well the Sample Rate Converter (SRC) works. This is the technology that "up-samples" the CD stuff at 44kHz to 48kHz or "down-samples" 88, 96 or 192kHz down to 48kHz. There are been some bad SRC combinations over the years. Learn more at: https://src.infinitewave.ca/

 

[Bloomer]

I have a Nvidia Shield Pro and TiVo 4k. The Nvidia's picture and audio are better than the TiVo; The Shield cost 5x the TiVo, too. Streaming devices vary in quality. I don't think you'll do much better than your Shield unless you go up to a dedicated expensive streamer.

Many of the High End companies make them; they are not cheap (think maybe 5-10X the Shield price). I have no personal experience with them. If you can somehow get away from HDMI audio and use the coax output, you might like the results better. The coax output from my BluRay plays clearer CD audio than the HDMI output. DIfferent protocols promise equal results but what's in the electronic signal chain does make a difference.

Bit of advice: use ethernet to feed your streamer, not wifi.

 

[gwing]

Just get a dedicated streamer but make sure it is one that supports Tidal Connect. No point in going high-end as the Wiim/Eversolo level streamers can all do bit perfect streaming so nothing else is better. And their room correction feature in itself is worth the price of the streamer

 

[Audiotistic]

For playback in the home, anything better than 14 bits probably has enough dynamic range for music. 16 bits is better, obviously and almost certainly more than enough domestically. You only need 24 bits or 32 bits or floats if you are editing, mixing etc. after which you can comfortably down-convert to 16 bits

48kHz sample rate means audio can extend to a sharp-filtered 24kHz. That's way better than almost all (probably all) adults can hear. There are theoretically good arguments that consider 44kHz sample rate is OK, but a bit tight. 48kHz (pro audio) would have been more sensible for CD.

Far more critical to sound quality is how well the Sample Rate Converter (SRC) works. This is the technology that "up-samples" the CD stuff at 44kHz to 48kHz or "down-samples" 88, 96 or 192kHz down to 48kHz. There are been some bad SRC combinations over the years. Learn more at: https://src.infinitewave.ca/

Thank you for that information! Is the SRC inside of a transport? Apparently my Trinnov downsamples anything above 96kHz. For some reason I was unable to access the link you attached

 

[kemmler3D]

I am not an engineer nor do I know much about these things but I thought 24/192 was hi res/lossless and therefore better than 24/48.

It's better in the same way that 8K is better than 4K on a small screen at a large distance, i.e. the differences are imperceptible except at extreme edge cases.

Higher sampling rates are pretty useless, because the content you capture/play back with that is ultrasonic, i.e. beyond the limits of human hearing. There is a lot of wishful thinking about perception of ultrasonic frequencies, but there is no really solid evidence they are perceptible in practice even with specialized equipment, and even when they do occur naturally in music, don't make it through the recording and mixing/mastering process with good fidelity anyway.

Higher bit depths are cool for reducing the noise floor, but the noise floor of a 16-bit file is already down around -96dB which, if you try it out, is already actually really low and inaudible in almost all situations.

It turns out Sony / Philips knew what they were doing when they came up with Redbook, and attempts to go beyond that are mostly for overkill-style peace of mind and/or marketing purposes.

Higher resolution formats are useful in the studio to avoid generation loss, to provide ample headroom for recording and mixing, etc. However, on playback you don't need to worry about that stuff.

 

[Audiotistic]

It's better in the same way that 8K is better than 4K on a small screen at a large distance, i.e. the differences are imperceptible except at extreme edge cases.

Higher sampling rates are pretty useless, because the content you capture/play back with that is ultrasonic, i.e. beyond the limits of human hearing. There is a lot of wishful thinking about perception of ultrasonic frequencies, but there is no really solid evidence they are perceptible in practice even with specialized equipment, and even when they do occur naturally in music, don't make it through the recording and mixing/mastering process with good fidelity anyway.

Higher bit depths are cool for reducing the noise floor, but the noise floor of a 16-bit file is already down around -96dB which, if you try it out, is already actually really low and inaudible in almost all situations.

It turns out Sony / Philips knew what they were doing when they came up with Redbook, and attempts to go beyond that are mostly for overkill-style peace of mind and/or marketing purposes.

Higher resolution formats are useful in the studio to avoid generation loss, to provide ample headroom for recording and mixing, etc. However, on playback you don't need to worry about that stuff.

Very interesting. Thank you for your explanation! On a more simple level, I am just trying to understand if the Nvidia Shield lessens the audio quality compared to a stand alone transport (price/quality of your choosing).

 

[masterhw]

Very interesting. Thank you for your explanation! On a more simple level, I am just trying to understand if the Nvidia Shield lessens the audio quality compared to a stand alone transport (price/quality of your choosing).

I believe the Shield should output up to Tidal’s full hi-res 24/192. But at the same time, even an Apple TV at 24/48 would be perfectly competent and almost certainly not an audible difference. Really just go with the platform/ecosystem/interface you like the most.

 

[popej]

I have used Tidal on Android TV for a short time. Mostly because I wanted to listen to multichannel Atmos tracks. It was a really bad experience. Tidal app looked kind of like a demo with more problems than features. Apart from that, IMHO running TV to play music is not a sensible solution.

 

[Audiotistic]

I have used Tidal on Android TV for a short time. Mostly because I wanted to listen to multichannel Atmos tracks. It was a really bad experience. Tidal app looked kind of like a demo with more problems than features. Apart from that, IMHO running TV to play music is not a sensible solution.

Oh I think there is a slight misunderstanding here. The music I stream is going through my Trinnov and out to my audio system. I'm simply trying to learn whether the Nvidia lessens the quality of the audio compared to a stand alone streamer.

 

[Audiotistic]

I believe the Shield should output up to Tidal’s full hi-res 24/192. But at the same time, even an Apple TV at 24/48 would be perfectly competent and almost certainly not an audible difference. Really just go with the platform/ecosystem/interface you like the most.

I see. Yes, it seems the platform, ecosystem and interface might be the only reason to choose one over the other. Thank you.

 

[Audiotistic]

Just get a dedicated streamer but make sure it is one that supports Tidal Connect. No point in going high-end as the Wiim/Eversolo level streamers can all do bit perfect streaming so nothing else is better. And their room correction feature in itself is worth the price of the streamer

Thank you for your response. Great point on the Tidal Connect. Though it seems some already have Tidal so I assume it would be best to use theirs vs Tidal Connect possibly? Or maybe it's the same difference as long as it supports Tidal Connect.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Thank you for that information! Is the SRC inside of a transport?

I'm not sure what you mean by "transport". Historically that term has been applied to a disc player (CD, DVD-A) where the feed is taken from digital outputs only and fed into a separate DAC that creates audible sounds.

Sample Rates Conversion is essential where sample rates don't match. Think of it as a car gearbox (although I hate car analogies). If you have a device such as many TV systems with a fixed sample rate of 48kHz, the TV itself performs the SRC function to upsample Redbook CDs digital feeds and downsample HiRez digital feeds. If you are feeding from say a laptop, you could instead use the (probably better) software SRC to do the sample rate conversion to 48kHz before feeding the TV system.

SRCs are everywhere these days now there's no longer a simple consistent standard. The first standalone DAC I had did not have an SRC and could ONLY handle RedBook bitstreams from a standard CD player or transport at 44/16

 

[gwing]

Thank you for your response. Great point on the Tidal Connect. Though it seems some already have Tidal so I assume it would be best to use theirs vs Tidal Connect possibly? Or maybe it's the same difference as long as it supports Tidal Connect.

Maybe, read the specs of that streamer carefully. Having a streamer that 'supports Tidal ' isn't necessarily the same as one that allows Tidal Connect from another device.

 

[gwing]

Very interesting. Thank you for your explanation! On a more simple level, I am just trying to understand if the Nvidia Shield lessens the audio quality compared to a stand alone transport (price/quality of your choosing).

In theory, provided you are using digital output from the shield it should, if competently designed, be audibly transparent i.e. as good an audio quality as any other streamer on the planet irrespective of price.

That said I haven't seen any measurements of the shield to know it actually works 'properly' and I have an inherent distrust of the design priority given to audio by any TV related product so maybe the shield does it properly, maybe like my old Panasonic TV it doesn't. You can get a dedicated streamer that has been tested here and provides transparent digital output very cheaply.