Seeking recommendations: Best active speakers for $10k/pair? (Would also be offered for measurement.)

[echopraxia]

Also, the only problem with testing stereo is that I would need six output channels, but the miniDSP SHD has just 4. All four would have to be occupied by just the speakers to do stereo A/B tests.

So I can EITHER test stereo AB test with no subs, or mono AB test with subs.

I agree about sample size but this is difficult due to Covid, and I’m not sure how many people are in the Seattle area.

 

[Vintage57]

Try Meyer monitors such as the HD-1.

from personal experience these have major hiss issues

 

[richard12511]

Can you explain more about what you don’t like about stacking them vertically? I find that we are very sensitive to horizontal differences, and when switching horizontal differences are hard not to notice.

I like stacking them vertically better than horizontally as well. I was somewhat teasing and just saying don't tell the people taking the test that they're in that configuration. If one knows that the Genelec is sitting on top, it might be possible to listen for that, especially with the Salon being a very tall 4 way. Maybe blindfold them before they come in the room?

Level matching will be easy in that I am now working on EQing them with the goal of having almost identical in-room frequency response. The problem with level matching otherwise is that matched level on one song is not matched on another. So, I think ensuring EQ is the same will be very important.

The nice thing about the miniDSP SHD is you can save up to four profiles, each with different channel mappings, levels, and DSP filters. This will make it super easy to switch.

Awesome.

 

[richard12511]

Also, the only problem with testing stereo is that I would need six output channels, but the miniDSP SHD has just 4. All four would have to be occupied by just the speakers to do stereo A/B tests.

So I can EITHER test stereo AB test with no subs, or mono AB test with subs.

I agree about sample size but this is difficult due to Covid, and I’m not sure how many people are in the Seattle area.

If you can only pick one, I'd vote mono + subs. From my experience, mono is much easier and quicker.

 

[richard12511]

I agree about sample size but this is difficult due to Covid, and I’m not sure how many people are in the Seattle area.

The Covid thing does make it tough . Stupid pandemics getting in the way of science . About how many do you think you can get?

 

[echopraxia]

The Covid thing does make it tough . Stupid pandemics getting in the way of science . About how many do you think you can get?

Aiming for about half a dozen but that may be optimistic, so we will see.

P.S. Made this thread here to discuss this since I don't want to distract this too much from the general $10k speaker discussion.

 

[aac]

I asked ahead of time if any one knew of any device that could switch between passive and active. I did get some responses, but the cheapest device was like $1,000.

Wow that is expensive.
You can do that with any multichannel sound card easily.
Not that multichannel sound cards are cheap, but you'll need a sound card to play audio anyway.

 

[andrewch]

@andrewch Honestly my only complaint with Neumanns is that they don’t seem to have any sort of auto-standby. You can leave them on all the time (there isn’t any hiss unless you put your ear centimeters from the tweeter), but the heat sinks will remain very mildly warm to the touch and 24W of idle power will be consumed by each KH310. (But, this is fairly straightforward to solve yourself if you want via a trigger-controlled power strip.)

Thanks, I thought about the power consumption and it's probably something I can compromise on for the price of the KH310.

@andrewch Oh also lastly, I recall @stevenswall had a really positive review of the highly capable last-gen 3-way Genelec monitors like the 8260, which have been technically superseded by “the ones” line but still come very very close in performance and exceed them in some ways like SPL.

8260 are expensive in my area. I would reach for the Ones if that is the case (that they are a more superior monitor).

Something more worrying to me is that the KH310 is a 2013 speaker design (year of launch). Looking at its predecessor, the K+H O 300D which if I'm correct was launched in 2004, makes 9 years between models. It will take some time before they launch a new model - it depends on a lot of factors. But if we take this number into account, it could be that Neumann is working on the upgraded KH310 design which will include DSP, better idle power management, new materials, etc.

If I buy speakers early next year when I move in, I want to forget about home audio for the next 10 years. KH310 will be an 8 year old speaker by then, soon to be replaced. Looking at the Genelec 8351B maybe I could be pleased with just two speakers and no subwoofers, but they are way above my budget. Nevertheless, I will audition them to understand what The Ones sound is about. I really like what the GLM software can do, and I will not have to buy the SHD Studio if I pick Genelec.

I briefly checked the Dynaudio Core 59 and I could not find any measurements. Also that tweeter looks very unprotected and a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[andrewch]

I recently discovered Buchardt Audio's active speakers.

A500 Measurements and Spinorama

A700 towers measurements

Look's like D&D 8C got some competition. The floorstanding A700 model is on pre-order, to be shipped September.

 

[Abe_W]

The Elac Navis floorstander for 4600/pair is the best active speaker you can get in the under 10k category

 

[HooStat]

The Elac Navis floorstander for 4600/pair is the best active speaker you can get in the under 10k category

Based on what criteria, exactly?

 

[echopraxia]

The Elac Navis floorstander for 4600/pair is the best active speaker you can get in the under 10k category

Please don’t make such a confident assertion without at least explaining how you came to this conclusion.

The on-axis measurements seen here look pretty bad, so on that basis alone it would be an extreme stretch to even consider it a contender in this league. It’s much more likely that it wins “worst waste of $4600” than “best active speaker under $10k”.

 

[Abe_W]

Please don’t make such a confident assertion without at least explaining how you came to this conclusion.

The on-axis measurements seen here look pretty bad, so on that basis alone it would be an extreme stretch to even consider it a contender in this league. It’s much more likely that it wins “worst waste of $4600” than “best active speaker under $10k”.

Well, i have a pair of them in my office and i know how good they sound. But, it looks like they have the nod from EISA.
https://audioxpress.com/news/expert...ion-eisa-awards-2019-2020-in-audio-categories
Overall, I think i trust EISA's judging process a bit more than a coupla bananahead scientists on this forum.

 

[echopraxia]

Well, i have a pair of them in my office and i know how good they sound. But, it looks like they have the nod from EISA.
https://audioxpress.com/news/expert...ion-eisa-awards-2019-2020-in-audio-categories
Overall, I think i trust EISA's judging process a bit more than a coupla bananahead scientists on this forum.

What other speakers specifically have you compared them to in the same room? There are a lot of bad speakers out there at all prices.

We are open to debate and discussion and data always, but your insults here are not productive. If you want to blindly dismiss everyone on these forums pre-emptively, why are you here at all other than to troll?

 

[NTK]

Well, i have a pair of them in my office and i know how good they sound. But, it looks like they have the nod from EISA.
https://audioxpress.com/news/expert...ion-eisa-awards-2019-2020-in-audio-categories
Overall, I think i trust EISA's judging process a bit more than a coupla bananahead scientists on this forum.

Let's see ... (from the link you provided)

...​

EISA, the Expert Imaging & Sound Association (www.eisa.eu) revealed the winners of its 2019-2020 Awards. Technical experts from over 60 leading specialist magazines and websites in 29 countries across the world have recognized and awarded no fewer than 78 products as the best in their categories. ...​

​

And who are they ...
https://eisa.eu/members/

Certainly a fine group of world renowned technical experts

 

[Abe_W]

What other speakers specifically have you compared them to in the same room? There are a lot of bad speakers out there at all prices.

We are open to debate and discussion and data always, but your insults here are not productive. If you want to blindly dismiss everyone on these forums pre-emptively, why are you here at all other than to troll?

Prove to me how everyone at EISA is wrong and you are right. Prove your greatness to me,

 

[richard12511]

The Elac DBR-62 sound much better than the Navis, and they're ~1/8 the price. I think the Navis were an interesting experiment for Andrew Jones, but the DBR-62 are much better.

If you own the Navis, that makes your opinion less credible, as it means you're probably very biased.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Overall, I think i trust EISA's judging process a bit more than a coupla bananahead scientists on this forum.

Do you have any idea what their judging process is?

 

[AnalogSteph]

The on-axis measurements seen here look pretty bad, so on that basis alone it would be an extreme stretch to even consider it a contender in this league. It’s much more likely that it wins “worst waste of $4600” than “best active speaker under $10k”.

Keep in mind that's a 30 dB range on the vertical there, so those dips aren't quite as bad as you'd think at first - and dips are less problematic than peaks anyway. Still, a bit more quirky than one would really like to see. Even if we'll chalk up the 8 and 14 kHz dips to coaxial idiosyncrasies, the ~3 kHz one is a bit puzzling. You'd think in a fully active design it should have been possible to iron out something like this (especially since it seems well-thought-out otherwise). The misc. resonances noted in the 1-5 kHz range are a bit worrying as well. Level handling seems to be at least good though. I'd hold off on a judgement until I've seen a full spinorama of these.

Not sure why you would put a coax mid-tweeter on a floorstander, it's not like those are typically used in nearfield. The reasoning behind this design decision would be interesting.

 

[thewas]

Not sure why you would put a coax mid-tweeter on a floorstander, it's not like those are typically used in nearfield. The reasoning behind this design decision would be interesting.

To have a floorstander in the same product family with the bookshelf version? https://www.elac.com/series/navis-powered-speakers/
Also with this logic KEF, TAD etc. and shouldn't also use coaxial drivers at their floorstanders?
A good coaxial has also other advantages like smoother vertical directivity and sound power that not only play a role at near field listening (and of course also disadvantages).