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Seeking Cost/Performance Input and Thoughts: Hypex vs Purifi vs Benchmark

John1959

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If one cannot do the repairs themselves, the cost for servicing another amplifier vs buying new modules might similar or greater, especially 10 years from now. Plus factor in time you may be without your equipment. And who knows what enhancements or options will be available in 10 years that you would be missing out on by servicing older equipment.
I agree. Also, I don't believe those class D amps/switching power supplies have a very long lifespan (say more than 5-10 years). I bought a 8-channel amp recently, case filled with NCxxxMP modules and some gadgets (softstart etc), for my 3-way active system. The fourth module, a fairly cheap NC122MP, is a spare one. Just in case one fails. Much like a server computer with an array of harddisks, including a spinning "hot spare" disk :). So I don't have to send the unit back to the company (abroad) for installing a new one. I simply request a new module without any hurry and the amp won't leave my home at all and no down time also while waiting for the module (just swap a few cables to the spare one). Replacement of the unit, if you want to do that (it can be shelved also) takes 10 minutes, at the most.

BTW, my previous system included a direct heated SET 300B tube amp which I build from a kit in 1997 (23 years ago). Used daily. Tube rectifiers. No failures at all, measures like the first day, even the caps still within spec. Had to change quite a few tubes of course, but that's it. Don't expect that from class D!

John.
 
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gvl

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If one cannot do the repairs themselves, the cost for servicing another amplifier vs buying new modules might similar or greater, especially 10 years from now. Plus factor in time you may be without your equipment. And who knows what enhancements or options will be available in 10 years that you would be missing out on by servicing older equipment.

Endgame is endgame, you must accept potential downtime for repairs if you're serious about it.
 

Gphoton

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An "engame" amp is the amp that outlives you. Chances are Benchmark will fix a broken AHB2 for you 10 years down the road and bring it up to the original spec even if it is going to cost you. How do you fix an Audiophonics Class D in 2030?
Replace the switching power supply
 

Gphoton

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Hoping to get it built. There are some custom options from OEMs but I was thinking two separate units. im Starting to think bi-amp isn’t worth It.
Getting a 4 channel unit of identical amps (Nord, Audiophonics, March?) Or two identical stereo would be off the shelf.
 

Gphoton

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Replace the switching power supply
Seriously, the module are an easy swap. The power supply will go before the class D amp. A class AB amp may eventually need recapping. Leaving it on may actually help though to keep the electrolytic's polarized. I have a B&K ST-140 still going strong in my wife's office because I keep it on. I have a GFA555 I'm afraid to turn on because I've left it off many years.
 

Chobes11

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Getting a 4 channel unit of identical amps (Nord, Audiophonics, March?) Or two identical stereo would be off the shelf.
Thanks. I know about The 4 channel amps. I just struggle to see how they would sound better than one NC1200 stereo since it would be close to the same price.
 

CDMC

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The idea behind the possibility of external input buffers is that high end OEM can produce their own "distinct" sound to make a difference with other brands (just a bare Hypex unit wouldn't sell in a $10.000 amp :).

It was a bit more than that. In order to seen as a high end product, Hypex engaged in minimum pricing that the manufactures could sell products. They allowed for different input buffers so that each manufacture could distinguish their products, which as you expect they would want to with high price items. It appears that the price maintenance has finally been dropped and straight Hypex NC1200 amps are now available for less than $1,000 and the stock input buffer performs better than the aftermarket buffers.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...rguments-about-hypex-and-nord-licensing.7783/
 
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tmtomh

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An "engame" amp is the amp that outlives you. Chances are Benchmark will fix a broken AHB2 for you 10 years down the road and bring it up to the original spec even if it is going to cost you. How do you fix an Audiophonics Class D in 2030?

A good point. I used “endgame” in a partial or perhaps imprecise way. I later qualified what I’m looking for as an amp that that I won’t need to replace or upgrade performance-wise: one I can keep until it breaks.

If I wanted an amp I could be sure could get repaired in 10 or 20 years, I’d get a 2nd job and save up for a Bryston at 3-5x the cost of the Audiophonics and 1.5-2.5x the cost of the Benchmark.
 

gvl

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If I wanted an amp I could be sure could get repaired in 10 or 20 years, I’d get a 2nd job and save up for a Bryston at 3-5x the cost of the Audiophonics and 1.5-2.5x the cost of the Benchmark.

Why can't you just get the Benchmark at 1x cost of Benchmark? I don't think they are at a higher risk of going under than Bryston. You may have to pay their hourly rate to fix the amp, if it breaks that is. The AHB2 will always be a legendary amp - pride of ownership, resale value, what not. Hypex/Purify from a builder of the day - not so much. But if all that doesn't matter to you just get a Class D, you know it will sound the same.
 
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tmtomh

tmtomh

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Why can't you just get the Benchmark at 1x cost of Benchmark? I don't think they are at a higher risk of going under than Bryston. You may have to pay their hourly rate to fix the amp, if it breaks that is. The AHB2 will always be a legendary amp - pride of ownership, resale value, what not. Hypex/Purify from a builder of the day - not so much. But if all that doesn't matter to you just get a Class D, you know it will sound the same.

I could indeed just get the Benchmark. But to me, $1400 out the door for the Audiophonics vs $3200 out the door (tax included) for the Benchmark is a very big difference. I'm basing my decision on the assumption - and I admit it is an assumption - that my experience with power amplifiers in the past 30 years will hold, and any decently made amp, particularly one so simple as these Class D amps, will likely last for a good long while. If the Audiophonics goes belly-up in 10 years, I could buy another equivalent amp and still be out the same money or even slightly less money than with a Benchmark. If the Audiophonics lasts 20 years (or if the Benchmark would've broken after 10 years), then I'm ahead of the game. The reason I mentioned Bryston is because they have a 20-year warranty, whereas Benchmark has five.

I freely admit there is more than one way to weigh the factors and probabilities.
 

Chobes11

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But to me, $1400 out the door for the Audiophonics vs $3200 out the door (tax included) for the Benchmark is a very big difference. .
What is the setup you are considering at audiophonics? Are you in US or EU?
 

gvl

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I could indeed just get the Benchmark. But to me, $1400 out the door for the Audiophonics vs $3200 out the door (tax included) for the Benchmark is a very big difference. I'm basing my decision on the assumption - and I admit it is an assumption - that my experience with power amplifiers in the past 30 years will hold, and any decently made amp, particularly one so simple as these Class D amps, will likely last for a good long while. If the Audiophonics goes belly-up in 10 years, I could buy another equivalent amp and still be out the same money or even slightly less money than with a Benchmark. If the Audiophonics lasts 20 years (or if the Benchmark would've broken after 10 years), then I'm ahead of the game. The reason I mentioned Bryston is because they have a 20-year warranty, whereas Benchmark has five.

I freely admit there is more than one way to weigh the factors and probabilities.

It sounds like you've already set your mind on Class D and Benchmark shouldn't have been a part of the original question.
 

Chobes11

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Question: do these high power class D amps need to be on a 20amp circuit? I was reading that the Parasound A21 (although I know it’s CK ass AB) needs to be on a 20amp circuit.
 

Kal Rubinson

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Question: do these high power class D amps need to be on a 20amp circuit? I was reading that the Parasound A21 (although I know it’s CK ass AB) needs to be on a 20amp circuit.
Some do. I had an ATI that had a 20a cable.
 

gvl

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Question: do these high power class D amps need to be on a 20amp circuit? I was reading that the Parasound A21 (although I know it’s CK ass AB) needs to be on a 20amp circuit.

Only if you run them at more at than 1.5kW continuous load per circuit in the US.
 
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tmtomh

tmtomh

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It sounds like you've already set your mind on Class D and Benchmark shouldn't have been a part of the original question.

No, I really didn't. In fact my bias has been towards Class AB. I'm in my early '50s so my formative years in hi-fi, from my teens through my '30s, were all about Class A and AB. I've only ever owned Class AB amps, and massive linear PSUs (preferably toroidals), huge heatsinks, mosfets, and 50-lb amps are types of signs of quality I've been accustomed to for decades.

It's taken me some time - and reading a lot of Amir's Class D amp tests and the ensuing threads here carefully - to get comfortable with Class D as a concept, in particular how the switching noise is handled, and the basic notion that a lightweight amp can produce not only lots of watts, but have significant current-handling capacity like the heavy iron of old. It's literally been a years-long process for me (albeit a casual and fun one) to educate myself enough about the topology where I feel I can make a sufficiently informed decision. Even 2-3 months ago, getting an NCore or Purifi-based amp was not quite something I could really see myself doing.

If the Benchmark amp were $1500 or $1800, maybe even $2000, it would be an instant buy for me - I probably wouldn't have looked at anything else. And if my income were 20-30% higher, and we were not in a global pandemic that threatens future employment and the value of one's investments and assets, I might even have snapped up the Benchmark no questions asked at $3k.

But in the reality I'm in, and being a member of this site, believing in the validity of measurements, and having a decent sense of the limits of audibility for a speaker-amp use case (as opposed to headphones) in a typical room, I could not ignore the value proposition of the better Class D options.

I've been happily living with a 25-year old Class AB amp that I bought about 6 years ago, which is rated at 0.18% THD, which produces a low-level hiss through the speakers (albeit audible only during silence and within a foot or two of the speaker), and which has no speaker protection. A modern, Class D amp based on an exceptionally well-measuring module, in what appears to be a nicely-built implementation, represents such a step up from what I have that it became difficult to justify spending 2-1/4 times as much for an amp that would likely give me no audible additional improvement compared to the Class D.
 
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tmtomh

tmtomh

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What is the setup you are considering at audiophonics? Are you in US or EU?

I'm in the US. I got a Purifi-based stereo power amp from them, the HPA unit (in the full-width case).
 

TimF

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Ya know I'm considering either a Mazda 3, or a Honda Civic or a VW Jetta with 184 lb-ft torque at 1,500 rpm. A person could agonize over such a decision. They're just machines. They copy each other's technology. They're not kidney dialysis machines, or prosthetic limbs. And color, the car's color is in the eye of the beholder. The choice is mostly inconsequential.
 
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