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Seeking Cost/Performance Input and Thoughts: Hypex vs Purifi vs Benchmark

Gphoton

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The NC1200 has a peak current of 38A, the NC502MP 27A and the 1ET400 (Purifi) 25A. All those are capable of driving into 2 ohm (or even less) without problems. Same as the much smaller NC122MP units. I use the NC502MP for driving two dipole subwoofers with 2 10" speakers each channel (two 4 ohm units in parallel so 2 ohm) and quite some bass lift. No problem at all to drive them with low distortion and a cone excursion of one inch or so. Having said that, if you have really power hungry speakers and like play loud/fill a large room the NC1200 is probably the best choice. Note that the maximum peak current of the Purifi unit is slightly less than the NC502MP, even with a much larger power supply (Hypex SMPS1200A400) than the one integrated in the NC502MP module. It's also physically a really small module. In the future they will come with more powerful versions I guess.

BTW, I have never heard a NC1200MP or Purifi but I am quite confident that the audible differences are small and maybe related tot the input buffer of choice. You can also bypass them (not on the NCxxxMP) if you have a source with enough output voltage (10 V or so) or don't need full power. Should sound the best of all (at the lowest cost).

John.
Another consideration is biamping: NC502MP modules for the bass and/or use a smaller unit for treble versus the single 1200. This may give you the best sound quality.
 

Gphoton

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Another consideration is biamping: NC502MP modules for the bass and/or use a smaller unit for treble versus the single 1200. This may give you the best sound quality.
Looking at the Martin Logan's, they do support bi amping. The AMT tweeter gives a really transparent treble and if the amp didn't also have to supply current to the 2 ohm woofers, the distortion would be lower. Two less expensive amps may work better than 1 big one.
 

Chobes11

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Another consideration is biamping: NC502MP modules for the bass and/or use a smaller unit for treble versus the single 1200. This may give you the best sound quality.
Interesting idea. That would be more expensive. How would that connect from the pre-amp?
 

Nathan_A

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Interesting idea. That would be more expensive. How would that connect from the pre-amp?
If your pre doesn't have dual outputs (many/most do not), then you use Y-splitters from the pre to the downstream amps.
 

Chobes11

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Looking at the Martin Logan's, they do support bi amping. The AMT tweeter gives a really transparent treble and if the amp didn't also have to supply current to the 2 ohm woofers, the distortion would be lower. Two less expensive amps may work better than 1 big one.
So you’re suggesting a 502MP for lows and 252MP for highs? That’s looks like it would be a little cheaper than a stereo NC1200 or Purifi. So many options! Haha
 

John1959

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Interesting idea. That would be more expensive. How would that connect from the pre-amp?

Another consideration is biamping: NC502MP modules for the bass and/or use a smaller unit for treble versus the single 1200. This may give you the best sound quality.
In that case it's possible to use one NC100HF tweeter unit (about US$50) connected to the NC502MP (2x 100W peak) with a special cable set. It uses the power supply of the NC502MP, so it can be cheap. A tweeter doesn't need a lot of power. It's only available for OEM's of course, same as the NCxxxMP modules we are talking about.

See: https://www.hypex.nl/product/nc100hf-oem/78

I use a NORD 8-channel amp with NCxxxMP modules from 500 to 125W/channel (4 ohm) for a 3-way system.
 
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Chobes11

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In that case it's possible to use one NC100HF tweeter unit (about US$50) connected to the NC502MP (2x 100W peak) with a special cable set. It uses the power supply of the NC502MP, so it can be cheap. A tweeter doesn't need a lot of power. It's only available for OEM's of course, same as the NCxxxMP modules we are talking about.

See: https://www.hypex.nl/product/nc100hf-oem/78

I use a NORD 8-channel amp with NCxxxMP modules from 500 to 125W/channel (4 ohm) for a 3-way system.
Even an AMT tweeter? Is the power supply able to handle the HF amp? I might inquire Nord about that cost.
 

John1959

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Even an AMT tweeter? Is the power supply able to handle the HF amp?
(..)
Yes, that's the idea. Because most power in a music signal is in the bass and lower midrange (around 250 Hz). You can use it from around 500 Hz (so in fact even midrange) and above as stated on the Hypex web site. I don't think there is any benefit in sound quality to use another unit with it's own power supply, especially not when using the NC502MP with ample current reserves for signal peaks. Distortion specs are roughly the same. The NC502MP can deliver 27A in a short time and the NC100HF is a 9A unit However, it's only possible to use one NC100HF (2-channel) with every NCxxxMP unit.

So for bi-amping I would use a multichannel amp with a powerful NCxxxMP unit (e.g. NC252MP or NC502MP) for bass/mid and a NC100HF for the tweeter If you have a passive subwoofer or a 3-way system you could add a second NC502MP. That would not break the bank and it has to be seen this sounds less good than a system with a Purifi amps. If cost is no object I would not hesitate using Purifi units throughout though.

Several direct sellers on the internet (e.g. Nord, Apollon, VTV maybe also Audiophonics) are happy to assemble any combination you want if feasible. Or you can DIY of course.

John.
 
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Chobes11

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That would not break the bank and it has to be seen this sounds less good than a system with a Purifi amps. If cost is no object I would not hesitate using Purifi units throughout though.
.
Which is better between NC1200 vs Purifi?
Can the NC100HF be added to only nCore MP’s?
What happens to the NC100HF if the amp used on speaker that do not support bi-amp? The HF’s terminals will be blank but the amplifier will still be on. Is that a problem?
 

John1959

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Which is better between NC1200 vs Purifi?
Can the NC100HF be added to only nCore MP’s?
What happens to the NC100HF if the amp used on speaker that do not support bi-amp? The HF’s terminals will be blank but the amplifier will still be on. Is that a problem?
The Purifi has lower distortion than the NC1200 but the NC1200 has more output power. so which is better is hard to say. Depends on the situation. As both are considered as very fine amps it doesn't matter much I think, but I never have heard both of them. I am also not very good at detecting subtle differences between amps in general.

The NC100HF can only be added to NCxxxMP's and not to other Hypex power supplies, like the SMPS1200A400 of SMPS 1200A700 for example as used for the Purifi (A400) or other NCxxx modules.

Nothing happens as you have a NC100HF connected to a NCxxxMP and not using it for bi-amping,

BTW, I forgot something important. The latest version of the NC100HF has a reduced voltage gain. It's not 26 dB anymore but 20 dB, so 6 dB less than other hypex amps. I don't know for sure why the did it, probably to improve signal/noise ratio, but now bi-amping is less straightforward because you need the same voltage gain. Otherwise your treble level will be to low.

Maybe there is a technical solution for this but I can't tell you. Maybe companies like Nord can help you or other forum members.

Anyway, a small NC122MP module instead of the NC100HF for the tweeter, with it's own power supply, has the right gain (26 dB) but this is not as elegant or cost effective but works for sure.

John
 

Chobes11

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The Purifi has lower distortion than the NC1200 but the NC1200 has more output power. so which is better is hard to say. Depends on the situation. As both are considered as very fine amps it doesn't matter much I think, but I never have heard both of them. I am also not very good at detecting subtle differences between amps in general.

The NC100HF can only be added to NCxxxMP's and not to other Hypex power supplies, like the SMPS1200A400 of SMPS 1200A700 for example as used for the Purifi (A400) or other NCxxx modules.

Nothing happens as you have a NC100HF connected to a NCxxxMP and not using it for bi-amping,

BTW, I forgot something important. The latest version of the NC100HF has a reduced voltage gain. It's not 26 dB anymore but 20 dB, so 6 dB less than other hypex amps. I don't know for sure why the did it, probably to improve signal/noise ratio, but now bi-amping is less straightforward because you need the same voltage gain. Otherwise your treble level will be to low.

Maybe there is a technical solution for this but I can't tell you. Maybe companies like Nord can help you or other forum members.

Anyway, a small NC122MP module instead of the NC100HF for the tweeter, with it's own power supply, has the right gain (26 dB) but this is not as elegant or cost effective but works for sure.

John
I see. So the difference is voltage gain means I would need to need to stick with the MP versions anyway. Looks like the NC1200 is 28db. I was thinking maybe getting a NC1200 and then an MP for the tweeter to bi-amp but I guess that won’t work as well.

Is a different op amp worth it if I’m going to use a receiver as a pre-amp? When should one consider using a special op amp?
 
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John1959

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I see. So the difference is voltage gain means I would need to need to stick with the MP versions anyway. Looks like the NC1200 is 28db. I was thinking maybe getting a NC1200 and then an MP for the tweeter to bi-amp but I guess that won’t work as well.

Is a different op amp worth it if I’m going to use a receiver as a pre-amp? When should one consider using a special op amp?

About the different voltage gains between power amps when bi-amping first: if you're using a Roon (of JRiver) you can adjust a part of the frequency spectrum with a so called high of low shelf filter. So, you can lift the range of the tweeter with 2 dB above e.g. 2500 Hz (exact value depending on crossover point). Not ideal, but maybe working. I have no experience with bi-amping myself (I have an active system).

An input buffer is used for impedance matching and/or more gain. Otherwise you can't get the specified output power of the amp with "standard" output voltages of your receiver (typically 2 V unbalanced or 4 V balanced). So, in most cases you need an input buffer. It's incorporated in the NCxxxMP units and can 't be bypassed or changed with a custom buffer. For the other Hypex models (and Purifi) there are several options. I believe the NC500 OEM has no standard buffer but the NC1200 has one. I personally would not invest hundreds of dollars in non standard input buffers for the NC1200 because the NC1200 is already very decent (see specs!). And you are bi-amping with still some passive parts (caps/coils) in the signal path with their own influence on the sound.

The idea behind the possibility of external input buffers is that high end OEM can produce their own "distinct" sound to make a difference with other brands (just a bare Hypex unit wouldn't sell in a $10.000 amp :).

I am not aware of an input buffer which gives exact 26 dB gain with the NC1200 (which is standard 28 dB as you correctly said) to match with e.g. NCxxxMP. It must be possible to get this by replacing some resistors I guess :).
 
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boXem

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I see. So the difference is voltage gain means I would need to need to stick with the MP versions anyway. Looks like the NC1200 is 28db. I was thinking maybe getting a NC1200 and then an MP for the tweeter to bi-amp but I guess that won’t work as well.

Is a different op amp worth it if I’m going to use a receiver as a pre-amp? When should one consider using a special op amp?
Not sure to follow you. Are you taking a diy route or hoping to get your amplifier built by somebody?
None of the modules you mention are available for diy, and I doubt you find somebody doing full custom build upon your requirements, but I may be wrong.
Concerning the buffer, it's included in the NC1200, an external one is useless.
 

gvl

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An "engame" amp is the amp that outlives you. Chances are Benchmark will fix a broken AHB2 for you 10 years down the road and bring it up to the original spec even if it is going to cost you. How do you fix an Audiophonics Class D in 2030?
 

maverickronin

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How do you fix an Audiophonics Class D in 2030?

You can at least buy whatever class D module is the new hotness in 2030 and replace it. The case and PSU are more than half the cost anyway.

Not perfect, but these basic builds which just put together OEM modules like Lego are a lot more repariable than a DAC or AVR.
 

Chobes11

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Not sure to follow you. Are you taking a diy route or hoping to get your amplifier built by somebody?
None of the modules you mention are available for diy, and I doubt you find somebody doing full custom build upon your requirements, but I may be wrong.
Concerning the buffer, it's included in the NC1200, an external one is useless.
Hoping to get it built. There are some custom options from OEMs but I was thinking two separate units. im Starting to think bi-amp isn’t worth It.
 

gvl

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You can at least buy whatever class D module is the new hotness in 2030 and replace it. The case and PSU are more than half the cost anyway.

Not perfect, but these basic builds which just put together OEM modules like Lego are a lot more repariable than a DAC or AVR.

I thought the OP wanted an endgame amp, not an endgame enclosure.
 

jae

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I thought the OP wanted an endgame amp, not an endgame enclosure.
If one cannot do the repairs themselves, the cost for servicing another amplifier vs buying new modules might similar or greater, especially 10 years from now. Plus factor in time you may be without your equipment. And who knows what enhancements or options will be available in 10 years that you would be missing out on by servicing older equipment.
 
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