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Seeking Cost/Performance Input and Thoughts: Hypex vs Purifi vs Benchmark

tmtomh

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Expanding on a topic that's come up in another thread, I'm looking to buy my "endgame" power amp - something that not only measures well, but also is sufficiently audibly transparent that I can feel confident that I can put it in my system and not have to think about upgrading ever again.

While equipment, life, and living spaces can of course change in the future, long story short is that I'm confident that the power rating of the 400/500 Hypex and Purifi modules (and equivalent Class AB designs) is more than enough for my needs - and I'm happy to pay the small price premium for a Hypex 500-based amp over a 250-based amp even though a 250 probably would be sufficient.

So... I'm trying to decide among the following - and FYI I like the Audiophonics for Class D because I like the build quality, the positive owner reports here, the availability of both RCA and XLR jacks, and the heatsinking, internal airspace, and front-mounted power button of their component-sized HPA cases:
  • Audiophonics HPA-S500NC (2x Hypex 500 with inegrated PSUs) - approx $900USD
  • Audiophonics HPA-S400ET (2x Purifi 400 + 1x Hypex 1200 PSU) - approx $1400USD
  • Benchmark ABH2 - $3,000USD
My main questions, then, are what people's thoughts are on:
  1. The $500 extra for the Purifi unit. On the one hand, it would seem unnecessary if the Hypex-based amp is already audibly transparent. On the other hand, if I'm planning to keep this amp for a decade or longer (basically until it eventually breaks), would it be wiser to go for the better specs to future-proof it against any possible future upgrades of other components that could conceivably reveal a small audible difference between the Hypex and Purifi amps?
  2. Gain considerations: Benchmark vs Class D. The extra $1600 would be a stretch for me, but not a crazy one - I am fortunate enough to be able to afford it, even though I have to carefully weigh the expense. One concern I have about the Class D amps is that they provide about 25-26dB of gain, while my current amp, an Adcom GFA-5400, provides 29dB. I use my Oppo BDP-205 as a digital preamp, and I do have some room to increase its volume to compensate. Am I correct in assuming that the 3-4dB difference in amp gain corresponds to just a small change in the Oppo's (or any preamp's) volume control? Will the Benchmark's high and low gain switch capability be a significant advantage over the Audiophonics in this regard?

Obviously I will need to make my own decision and depend on my own judgment. But I do find others' perspectives really helpful and would appreciate folks weighing in if they want.

Thanks!

Best,
Matt
 
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dashendorf

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From 15+ kHz, the Purifi is far less frequency-dependent than the NCore, both of which offer less frequency-dependence than Class AB.

I respect Benchmark greatly, but I haven't spent the time to say the ABH2 is better or worse.

You need to ask yourself: Is Bruno Putzeys the greatest designer of our age? The results suggest he is, but Benchmark, in particular, has shown exceptional design talent also. I think you narrowed your choices down to an agonizing decision.

The following is biased, if I'm breaking a rule, please tell me. I'm not advocating. An amplifier isn't just an output module (Purifi), but also the input circuits and power supply. It's outside of your budget, but you should study the 10 k$ Class A+D LKV Research Veros PWR+, before you make a final decision between your choices above. Considering your thinking and your price point, you may also want to look at the LSA Voyager GAN 200 from Underwood HiFi.
 

dkinric

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From 15+ kHz, the Purifi is far less frequency-dependent than the NCore, both of which offer less frequency-dependence than Class AB.

I respect Benchmark greatly, but I haven't spent the time to say the ABH2 is better or worse.

You need to ask yourself: Is Bruno Putzeys the greatest designer of our age? The results suggest he is, but Benchmark, in particular, has shown exceptional design talent also. I think you narrowed your choices down to an agonizing decision.

The following is biased, if I'm breaking a rule, please tell me. I'm not advocating. An amplifier isn't just an output module (Purifi), but also the input circuits and power supply. It's outside of your budget, but you should study the 10 k$ Class A+D LKV Research Veros PWR+, before you make a final decision between your choices above. Considering your thinking and your price point, you may also want to look at the LSA Voyager GAN 200 from Underwood HiFi.

Dashendorf, welcome to ASR!
Can you share why the comments are biased? Do you own one or are you in the business?
 

dashendorf

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Dashendorf, welcome to ASR!
Can you share why the comments are biased? Do you own one or are you in the business?

I do social media for LKV. Since it was far outside the price point of the question, I felt comfortable posting. If it would have been near 3 k$, I wouldn't have posted; since it would have been commercial then. I have no relationship with Underwood HiFi; except great respect for the business. I do think John Siau of Benchmark is one of the best.

I actually own the Hypex module with Class A input circuits from LKV Research (Verito-1).
 

Absolute

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Perspective is the key word here. I don't know if Ncore is transparent in the ultimate sense or not, but it's more transparent than you're likely to be able to take advantage of. If you like Audiophonics and are serious about high quality sound reproduction, why not go for a 4 way Purifi module and high-quality two way speakers with active crossovers + several subs? Then we're about as good as it gets for stereo reproduction.

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...oies-class-d-purifi-4x400w-4-ohm-p-14452.html

But yeah, if you want to keep rolling with passive speakers and try to get the best out of them, the Purifi is what I would get. Just because it's better than the old Puri...eh.. Ncore version. Benchmark is even better and has the benefit of gain adjustments. Audibly better? No way.

Which brings me to the gain question; the gain setting is important to maximize the signal-to-noise ratio in your electronic chain. Ideally you want as loud as signal as you can from the Oppo with as low gain as you can use to achieve your maximum desired listening levels.
Gain in the amplifier amplifies both the signal and the noise from the dac/pre which means that you want as much signal as possible from the dac/pre to separate it from the noise.

Here's the thing; usually it's not that important in the world of hifi because most people use passive speakers with very low sensitivity, but it gets extremely important with high sensitivity speakers (>95 dB). A couple of dB gain difference is usually not a problem you need to worry much about.
 

Wes

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What speakers will the amp drive, and what is their impedance low?

Do you have the ability to try out amps for an in home test?

Do you care about visual aesthetics at all?

and.. I see Benchmarks for sale used frequently - maybe due to "excessive transparency"
 

Purité Audio

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Expanding on a topic that's come up in another thread, I'm looking to buy my "endgame" power amp - something that not only measures well, but also is sufficiently audibly transparent that I can feel confident that I can put it in my system and not have to think about upgrading ever again.

While equipment, life, and living spaces can of course change in the future, long story short is that I'm confident that the power rating of the 400/500 Hypex and Purifi modules (and equivalent Class AB designs) is more than enough for my needs - and I'm happy to pay the small price premium for a Hypex 500-based amp over a 250-based amp even though a 250 probably would be sufficient.

So... I'm trying to decide among the following - and FYI I like the Audiophonics for Class D because I like the build quality, the positive owner reports here, the availability of both RCA and XLR jacks, and the heatsinking, internal airspace, and front-mounted power button of their component-sized HPA cases:
  • Audiophonics HPA-S500NC (2x Hypex 500 with inegrated PSUs) - approx $900USD
  • Audiophonics HPA-S400ET (2x Purifi 400 + 1x Hypex 1200 PSU) - approx $1400USD
  • Benchmark ABH2 - $3,000USD
My main questions, then, are what people's thoughts are on:
  1. The $500 extra for the Purifi unit. On the one hand, it would seem unnecessary if the Hypex-based amp is already audibly transparent. On the other hand, if I'm planning to keep this amp for a decade or longer (basically until it eventually breaks), would it be wiser to go for the better specs to future-proof it against any possible future upgrades of other components that could conceivably reveal a small audible difference between the Hypex and Purifi amps?
  2. Gain considerations: Benchmark vs Class D. The extra $1600 would be a stretch for me, but not a crazy one - I am fortunate enough to be able to afford it, even though I have to carefully weigh the expense. One concern I have about the Class D amps is that they provide about 25-26dB of gain, while my current amp, an Adcom GFA-5400, provides 29dB. I use my Oppo BDP-205 as a digital preamp, and I do have some room to increase its volume to compensate. Am I correct in assuming that the 3-4dB difference in amp gain corresponds to just a small change in the Oppo's (or any preamp's) volume control? Will the Benchmark's high and low gain switch capability be a significant advantage over the Audiophonics in this regard?

Obviously I will need to make my own decision and depend on my own judgment. But I do find others' perspectives really helpful and would appreciate folks weighing in if they want.

Thanks!

Best,
Matt
I don’t believe there will be any sonic differences between the two amps both excellent but if you want to improve your sound quality then room and speakers.
Keith
 

Blumlein 88

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From 15+ kHz, the Purifi is far less frequency-dependent than the NCore, both of which offer less frequency-dependence than Class AB.

I respect Benchmark greatly, but I haven't spent the time to say the ABH2 is better or worse.

You need to ask yourself: Is Bruno Putzeys the greatest designer of our age? The results suggest he is, but Benchmark, in particular, has shown exceptional design talent also. I think you narrowed your choices down to an agonizing decision.

The following is biased, if I'm breaking a rule, please tell me. I'm not advocating. An amplifier isn't just an output module (Purifi), but also the input circuits and power supply. It's outside of your budget, but you should study the 10 k$ Class A+D LKV Research Veros PWR+, before you make a final decision between your choices above. Considering your thinking and your price point, you may also want to look at the LSA Voyager GAN 200 from Underwood HiFi.
I'm put off by LKV research marketing spiel of near zero distortion while specs are at 1%. Also the highlighting of zero feedback input circuitry. Putzey's himself wouldn't consider that automatically a good thing. How does the price rise so high considering it is using a Purifi base inside? All upon input circuitry? I guess some of it is the linear power supply too.

If the cost of Benchmark isn't comfortable I'd suggest the Purifi. Probably no wrong choice in this group.
 

ferongr

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The page quotes the distortion figures provided by Purify for the module itself, but not the preamps were the use of flowery language and mention of no feedback as if it's a positive attribute, lead me to believe that overal system performance will be far worse. No offence, but I find it very hard to trust that the performance of the input stage will be as good as that of the Purifi boards. The nice thing with NC500MP OEM modules is that the preamp stage is build into the main board and its performance included in the measurements that Hypex provides, so one can be confident that the assembled amplifiers (whether they come from March Audio, Audiophonics, VTV or whoever) will perform to, or very close to, Hypex spec.
 
OP
tmtomh

tmtomh

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What speakers will the amp drive, and what is their impedance low?

Do you have the ability to try out amps for an in home test?

Do you care about visual aesthetics at all?

and.. I see Benchmarks for sale used frequently - maybe due to "excessive transparency"

My speakers are ported stand-mount B&W 705s with 89dB sensitivity. I don't have the ability to try out amps in an at-home test, and honestly I'm not expecting or seeking to compare subtle colorations or "voicing" of power amps because I don't believe a well-designed power amp should be a source of easily detectable sonic characteristics of that type. (Speakers, on the other hand...)

I do care about aesthetics, but not in the sense of wanting my audio equipment to stand out aesthetically. To the converse I prefer it to be black and simple, blending into the background. So the black Audiophonics or Benchmark variations would be my choice. I don't think they look amazing, but they're unobjectionable to me. Build quality is important to me, but I have exactly zero interest in paying more for fancy looking metal millwork or analogue VU meters on a front panel.

I haven't seen many used Benchmarks, but I have seen others write about them frequently, so I'll keep an eye out. I've heard of used Benchmarks going for around $2k, which would sorely tempt me.
 

Wes

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I see them on US Audio mart pretty often, usually > $2k.

Good Luck and keep us posted on your decision. I think it is likely a coin toss...
 
OP
tmtomh

tmtomh

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I see them on US Audio mart pretty often, usually > $2k.

Good Luck and keep us posted on your decision. I think it is likely a coin toss...

Thanks! I always forget about US Audio Mart. Just checked there - there are none currently for sale... but two WTB postings!
 

TimF

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In the current economic environment I expect to see manufacturers and retailers offering price cuts to move out stock. Early in downturn isn't it common to see firms trying to reduce inventories, and this is especially so if they expect any big one-time or longer term deflation? However, I am not seeing broad price reductions, or even intermittent (testing the waters) price reductions. Prices are more stable now than before the virus outbreak and the large/quick downturn. Although a downturn was clearly beginning even before the beginning of 2020. How do you read this situation and why do you think there aren't price cuts and sales occurring?
 

dkinric

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If you are not going to see a substantial increase in volume, discounting doesn't help you much. You lose margin % and don't offset it with better margin/sales $. Not to say there won't be some, but I don't believe it will be widespread.
Source: I was a Buyer for a large consumer electronics company back in the day
 

Trouble Maker

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I did a little bit of an exercise previously. It's been a bit of time so I don't remember exactly what I did, but I think it was this. I took all recommended amps and plotted them for Price VS SINAD and Price VS Power, made a linear best fit, compared each to that. I then took only those that punched above average (and I think min of 0.8 or 0.9 in both categories) and plotted only those.

Clearly, even without this analysis, the Benchmark is in another category for SINAD than anything else that has been measured so far and maybe anything out there. But is 'low' on power for the price. So as someone was alluding to earlier it matters if that SINAD is your end game, does it really make a difference compared to those in the 100dB+ category, and if that power will always be enough to be endgame for you. My analysis was trying to get at purely analytical value, but as soon as you hit some minimum threshold in either area it will be enough for end game for your situation. This is weighting both equally too, but if you put a higher value/weighting on SINAD it changes the math, skews towards something like the Benchmark. Also, since SINAD is in dB (logarithmic?) and power is not, this analysis is probably not completely fair; maybe the power should be in dB but I didn't do that.

1589325111473.png
 

Wes

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Thanks for those scatter plots.

TMTomH, I set an alert on US Audio Mart and then wait for the Emails.
 

Panelhead

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For me that would be an easy one. The AHB2. The adjustable gain feature makes it worthwhile investment over Bruno’s work for me. I am using high efficiency speakers and a low gain amp mates better with Pro level source and 100+ dB speakers. Currently add 4:1 transformer step downs with fixed gain amps.
Also do not ignore the use of the Speak-on connectors. Amir and JA had to resort to using these to accurately measure the distortion and noise levels of the AHB2. Could not do it with binding posts. That is low noise.
I used these with my two Crown XLS amps and felt it was audibly better than the el cheapo 5 ways. But like the use of RCA vs XLR input, most ignore.
One last deal breaker is the need of a filter to measure the output of Class D. I usually listen to and not measure the amplifiers. If a filter is needed to measure accurately, it needs to be there for listening accurately.
I read something yesterday which may be BS about Class D. It said that the el cheapo Paschal modules output sine waves and not sawtooth. Lessens the requirements on the output filtering. Is this the future of Class D?
 
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tmtomh

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This is an interesting question - does one need low-pass filters to reproduce Class D performance when doing actual listening? Or is the ultrasonic noise sufficiently high that it doesn't matter for listening and only impacts broadband (aka up to high ultrasonics) measurements?
 
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Paperdragons

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From 15+ kHz, the Purifi is far less frequency-dependent than the NCore, both of which offer less frequency-dependence than Class AB.

I respect Benchmark greatly, but I haven't spent the time to say the ABH2 is better or worse.

You need to ask yourself: Is Bruno Putzeys the greatest designer of our age? The results suggest he is, but Benchmark, in particular, has shown exceptional design talent also. I think you narrowed your choices down to an agonizing decision.

The following is biased, if I'm breaking a rule, please tell me. I'm not advocating. An amplifier isn't just an output module (Purifi), but also the input circuits and power supply. It's outside of your budget, but you should study the 10 k$ Class A+D LKV Research Veros PWR+, before you make a final decision between your choices above. Considering your thinking and your price point, you may also want to look at the LSA Voyager GAN 200 from Underwood HiFi.

Seems a bit much. Reads a little bit more than biased when you're suggesting something around 7,000$-9,000$ more :/
 

Xulonn

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I'm put off by LKV research marketing spiel of near zero distortion while specs are at 1%. Also the highlighting of zero feedback input circuitry. Putzey's himself wouldn't consider that automatically a good thing. How does the price rise so high considering it is using a Purifi base inside? All upon input circuitry? I guess some of it is the linear power supply too.

But Mikey likes it!

Michael Fremer and other hard-core subjectivists like LKV phono products, but it looks to this old-timer that the company is catering to old-school subjectivists based on audio myths. Like you, Blumlein, I also find something about LKV to be a little "off-putting." They take a thoroughly sophisticated modern design, degrade the performance a bit by throwing some old-school audio woo (Class A and no feedback) at it, ensnare followers with flowery subjectivist prose, jack up the price ($18,500 for a phono preamp, preamp and power amp?) and a miracle occurs: audibly "better" sound that only true believers can appreciate.

Sorry @dashendorf , but while I believe that the LKV amp - just like its competitors - may sound "great" and have its fans, it is in the performance range where sonic differences under nearly any circumstances and level-matched double blind testing would likely be inaudible. I'm not convinced of its exceptionalism, and with three toroidal transformers, it must be pretty heavy (LKV does not publish its weight and dimensions).

Also, the Veros PWR+ has one of the ugliest back panels I have ever seen. Sure, the back panel is not visible from the front, but its appearance still affects our perception of the design and "quality" of a product. This looks like a stage one prototype design. (Then again, perhaps that's what this example is, although there appears to be fancy markings on the top.)

LKV.jpg
 
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