Seeking advice on how to set up my main system, needs new amp, but perhaps also preamp.

[Apesbrain]

Yeah, I'd think long and hard before giving up those Studio 150s; they are among the best sounding speakers ProAc ever made.

Admittedly, I'm biased owning a pair of 125s.

 

[sansenri]

On the other hand, I'm still rather intrigued by the idea of including an Apollon 1ET6525SA ST (or could also be a boXem A 4216/E2) in my system to do those ProAc justice. Since I'm in EU both should be easily purchased without odd extra costs. Using one of these would however require some way of feeding it with signal from a CD player and a streamer.
Would a good dac be sufficient to start with, to act as preamp?

​

 

[Apesbrain]

Would a good dac be sufficient to start with, to act as preamp?

I like having a pre-amp in my system because it makes it impossible to destroy my speakers should volume unexpectedly go to 100%. I set my analog pre-amp to the loudest level I'd ever listen, and then use digital volume control on my streamer to control listening volume.

The same could be done with a quality attenuator:

Goldpoint SA1 Level Control / Passive Preamp

Goldpoint SA1 Level Control / Passive Preamp

www.goldpt.com

Or, a power amp with physical gain control:

Purifi 1ET6525SA DM Dual Mono Stereo Amplifier

The Purifi 1ET6525SA True Dual Mono Amplifier by Apollon Audio utilises the newest Purifi 1ET6525SA amplifier modules as its core. The Purifi 1ET6525SA provides abundant power and remarkable precision.

apollonaudio.com

 

[sansenri]

in fact the idea of a pre-amp is the one I'm considering more likely, also since I plan to possibly have different sources connected. Any suggestions? I have not seen many preamps tested by ASR. I'm considering a Rotel pre-amp (such as RC-1572 MKII) although I'm not quite sure of its performance.

 

[Apesbrain]

Probably not what you want to hear, but if I had to replace what I already have I'd probably try to find a Conrad-Johnson integrated (CAV-45/50/60). I've heard and enjoyed the combination of ProAc & C-J several times.

That said, I'm sure the Rotel would do the job. There are a few favorable Rotel reviews on this site.

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

in fact the idea of a pre-amp is the one I'm considering more likely, also since I plan to possibly have different sources connected. Any suggestions? I have not seen many preamps tested by ASR. I'm considering a Rotel pre-amp (such as RC-1572 MKII) although I'm not quite sure of its performance.

I'm happy with my Quad Artera analogue pre amp. Might be a possibility for you.

 

[Redacted]

It's worth looking on Cambridge Audio's web pages. But of course, more expensive than Wiim etc.
I'm very happy with the sound and features of my Evo 75 (no longer made) but they have decent separates too - no harm in looking.

 

[sansenri]

Probably not what you want to hear, but if I had to replace what I already have I'd probably try to find a Conrad-Johnson integrated (CAV-45/50/60). I've heard and enjoyed the combination of ProAc & C-J several times.

That said, I'm sure the Rotel would do the job. There are a few favorable Rotel reviews on this site.

I'm not excluding an integrated amp at all, although I'd like it to be of similar quality to my Copland.
Conrad Johnson is not so popular here in EU and probably may suffer of higher pricing here.

 

[sansenri]

I'm happy with my Quad Artera analogue pre amp. Might be a possibility for you.

thanks, could be one suitable option, fully analogue, but not necessarily a negative aspect.

 

[sansenri]

It's worth looking on Cambridge Audio's web pages. But of course, more expensive than Wiim etc.
I'm very happy with the sound and features of my Evo 75 (no longer made) but they have decent separates too - no harm in looking.

not an exciting idea, no pre-amps available that I could see, and when considering an integrated amp ASR's review of the CXA81 Mk II was not so positive...

 

[Redacted]

not an exciting idea, no pre-amps available that I could see, and when considering an integrated amp ASR's review of the CXA81 Mk II was not so positive...

I was thinking a pre-amp/streamer DAC might be of use, like the EXN100, but if you want pure analogue pre-amp, then no.

 

[Sernyl]

I wonder what you will do with your integrated amp not working.
Did you swap the tubes ?
Any repair shop around you ?
Once done, you could resell it, Copland has good reputation.
But I also understand that you would like to change ;-)
About classical preamps, you won't find a lot here : they are replaced with DACs ; some of them have one analog input (+/- phono)
(my setup : RME ADI-2 pro + Boxem amp. And I don't need a streamer : PC does the job).
...and try to find the return rates for the brands you consider.

 

[Redacted]

I wouldn't use a tube amp, except for my guitar, but tubes per se are easy to fix - the problem is that things go wring in the rest of a tube amp, just liek any other amp. But I have an oscilloscope, sig gen and a soldering iron.

I'm failing to see the problem with finding a pre-amp - OK, many have streamer and DAC, but their are Chinese brands that sound great and are so cheap, who cares?

 

[sansenri]

I wonder what you will do with your integrated amp not working.
Did you swap the tubes ?
Any repair shop around you ?
Once done, you could resell it, Copland has good reputation.
But I also understand that you would like to change ;-)
About classical preamps, you won't find a lot here : they are replaced with DACs ; some of them have one analog input (+/- phono)
(my setup : RME ADI-2 pro + Boxem amp. And I don't need a streamer : PC does the job).
...and try to find the return rates for the brands you consider.

first thing I'll try to swap the tubes on the Copland. With this amp the tubes (E88CC/6922) need to be perfectly matched. I will probably take the amp to the official distributor here in Milan.
Once done, I will probably keep it, I'm actually very fond of it. The CSA has tube preamp, but the power amp is Mosfet so the output is very clean (I've listened to tube amps, but the CSA sounds more similar to an AB amp).
Also I have more than one setup at home and one of my sons has already "inherited" some of my gear... so no risk of any gear becoming useless.
I have actually noticed that preamps are somewhat hard to find here, almost all new set ups go straight through a dac... the problem with that is that at the most you get two line in connections.
In the meantime, one solution could be an integrated amp retaining sufficient connectivity, one of the upper end integrated Nads might do?
Otherwise as I mentioned perhaps a good pre, such as a Rotel, and a purifi power amp.

 

[sansenri]

I wouldn't use a tube amp, except for my guitar, but tubes per se are easy to fix - the problem is that things go wring in the rest of a tube amp, just liek any other amp. But I have an oscilloscope, sig gen and a soldering iron.

I'm failing to see the problem with finding a pre-amp - OK, many have streamer and DAC, but their are Chinese brands that sound great and are so cheap, who cares?

see my previous post about the tube amp, but in any case I'm interested to try a class D amp.
No problem finding any pre-amp, ok, but I was wondering whether ASR had tested anything and found it SOTA (would be a nice recommendation to buy) , but does not seem so.

 

[Redacted]

Yes sorry, I missed some posts.

It's fine to enjoy valve amps. They usually use solid state stages these days which may affect overall sound, and I guess Amir could test and identify which designs work best. But since nearly all use valves from a small set that have existed for decades, these may be the limiting factor, meaning state-of-the-art hasn't moved on much for a while, for some measurements.

I know that with guitar amps that are pure valve designs, apart from variations in gain applied and active tone circuits, they use reference designs from the 1940's (RCA?), largely cut and pasted. I imagine the circuit areas that use valves in "HiFi" gear may be pretty standardized too..

I wonder if ASR testing is that much use for some valve kit, which rely heavily on entirely valid subjective appeal?

 

[Sernyl]

On the other hand, I'm still rather intrigued by the idea of including an Apollon 1ET6525SA ST (or could also be a boXem A 4216/E2) in my system to do those ProAc justice. Since I'm in EU both should be easily purchased without odd extra costs. Using one of these would however require some way of feeding it with signal from a CD player and a streamer.
Would a good dac be sufficient to start with, to act as preamp?

Most DACs have several inputs : USB, Coax, S/PDIF, at least one of each. Sometimes analog (if ADC included).
The "problem" remains only in input switching.
It can be remote (and BTW has other usefull functions...).

Just an example :

https://rme-audio.de/files/uploads/Content-Bilder/ADI-2-DAC-MRC.jpg

- My CD player digital output goes to coax,
- My PC "streamer" has an optical output,
- TV ->USB
- Vinyl -> Analog (RCA).
I only have a RME ADI-2 Pro FS R and a Boxem power amp.
Both tested in ASR and other places.

 

[sansenri]

thanks, yes, a good dac with a reasonable amount of input options could work, and a pre-amp could possibly be added later if need be.

 

[Paul7777x]

My main set up needs some re-thinking. It currently consists mainly of a Rega Planar 3 turntable, a Copland CSA 14 integrated amp with phono stage, a pair of ProAc Studio 150s.
Other sources are a Rotel CD Player and a Pioneer Tuner. The latter has become mostly unused, but a streamer+dac to replace it would be welcome, while I would like to maintain the opportunity to play CDs (time ago I went through the core of ripping a lot of my CDs but then the HD they were on died on me and I could not be bothered to run the process all over again).

The problem I am facing now is that the Copland is having issues with one of the channels not working any longer (very low output, highly distorted). Not sure what the issue is, but I suspect one of the valves failing (the CSA 14 is a hybrid amp, with two tubes in the preamp, and mosfets in the final).
These are the Specifications :
Tubes...........................................……..ECC88/6922/6DJ8 x 2
Inputs..........................................……...RIAA, Tuner, Cd, Aux1, Aux2, Tape In
Outputs.........................................……Tape Out
Output Power..................................…..65 watts per channel into 8 ohms
Frequency Response.......................…..5Hz-120kHz, -3dB
Power Bandwidth.............................…5Hz-30kHz, -3dB
Input Sensitivity...............................…Line-level 130mV; Phono 3mV
Input Impedance..............................….Line-level 33k ohms; Phono 47k ohms
Dimensions(w x d x h)......................…43 x 44 x 11cm
Weight..........................................……13kg

I will probably look into fixing the Copland with calm, but in the meantime I would like to put together an alternative set up, mainly requiring a new amp.

The Studio 150s are nice, small size, floorstanders, that don't need huge power (20-150W into 8 ohms), so probably a decent 60 W RMS into 8ohms (similar to the Copland output) would do (willing to try class D or AB), my concern however is how to cope with sources. A preamp might be useful, which would then allow me to use a final amp such as Apollon 1ET6525SA ST (which might even be too much) or similar, high quality (flat response) class D amp.
Phono stage is not mandatory, however if I consider a preamp, then it would make sense for it to be included, I suppose.

My mind is not at all made up yet (I see many good digital amps, but they are very scarse of inputs), and I would like to maintain some flexibility in case I wish to add more sources to the system, at least in the short term the CD player (which is likely to need a dac) and a streamer.
Any advice on different types of set up, and needed gear is welcome!

I’d go for a used (or new) lingdorf TDAi 1120.

A splendid amp/dac/streamer/radio and with the magnificent Room Perfect.

Perhaps (and certainly used) the best bargain in hifi in the last ten or so years imo.

Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 - Lyngdorf Audio

lyngdorf.steinwaylyngdorf.com

 

[Paul7777x]

Ps, the 1120 above has;

2 optical inputs.
2 RCA digital inputs.
1 HDMI input.
1 input for an HHD/SSD/flash drive.

And, well… those listed here,

Plus a stereo preamp output to use for subs or an extra power amp.