Seeking advice on how to set up my main system, needs new amp, but perhaps also preamp.

[sansenri]

My main set up needs some re-thinking. It currently consists mainly of a Rega Planar 3 turntable, a Copland CSA 14 integrated amp with phono stage, a pair of ProAc Studio 150s.
Other sources are a Rotel CD Player and a Pioneer Tuner. The latter has become mostly unused, but a streamer+dac to replace it would be welcome, while I would like to maintain the opportunity to play CDs (time ago I went through the core of ripping a lot of my CDs but then the HD they were on died on me and I could not be bothered to run the process all over again).

The problem I am facing now is that the Copland is having issues with one of the channels not working any longer (very low output, highly distorted). Not sure what the issue is, but I suspect one of the valves failing (the CSA 14 is a hybrid amp, with two tubes in the preamp, and mosfets in the final).
These are the Specifications :
Tubes...........................................……..ECC88/6922/6DJ8 x 2
Inputs..........................................……...RIAA, Tuner, Cd, Aux1, Aux2, Tape In
Outputs.........................................……Tape Out
Output Power..................................…..65 watts per channel into 8 ohms
Frequency Response.......................…..5Hz-120kHz, -3dB
Power Bandwidth.............................…5Hz-30kHz, -3dB
Input Sensitivity...............................…Line-level 130mV; Phono 3mV
Input Impedance..............................….Line-level 33k ohms; Phono 47k ohms
Dimensions(w x d x h)......................…43 x 44 x 11cm
Weight..........................................……13kg

I will probably look into fixing the Copland with calm, but in the meantime I would like to put together an alternative set up, mainly requiring a new amp.

The Studio 150s are nice, small size, floorstanders, that don't need huge power (20-150W into 8 ohms), so probably a decent 60 W RMS into 8ohms (similar to the Copland output) would do (willing to try class D or AB), my concern however is how to cope with sources. A preamp might be useful, which would then allow me to use a final amp such as Apollon 1ET6525SA ST (which might even be too much) or similar, high quality (flat response) class D amp.
Phono stage is not mandatory, however if I consider a preamp, then it would make sense for it to be included, I suppose.

My mind is not at all made up yet (I see many good digital amps, but they are very scarse of inputs), and I would like to maintain some flexibility in case I wish to add more sources to the system, at least in the short term the CD player (which is likely to need a dac) and a streamer.

Any advice on different types of set up, and needed gear is welcome!

 

[Multicore]

Yamaha A-S501, A-S701 or A-S801.

Add a WiiM Mini and a half-meter of TOSLINK cable for streaming if you want.

 

[Salt]

Consider a AIO (all in one) with integrated DAC/ADC and phono input. Technics, T&A, Quad and others come to mind.

 

[Vincent Kars]

I see many good digital amps, but they are very scarse of inputs

It is very simple, if there is only one input and no volume control, it is a power amp. As a minimum you must have some kind of volume control and the option to switch between sources. This is what a pre-amp does.
If you put pre-amp and power-amp in 1 box, you have a integrated amp.

 

[Apesbrain]

You might consider a "streaming amp" such as the WiiM Amp Ultra ($529) or Eversolo Play ($629). The WiiM does not have a phono section, so you'd need to address that. The Play is a bit more flexible having both a phono and line in option. It is also available with internal CD drive.

On paper, the WiiM delivers a bit more output, but both are sufficient to drive your ProAcs at moderate listening level.

With either device, internet radio would replace your terrestrial tuner and you can give any of the leading online music services a trial, if that might be of interest.

If you want to get back into ripping your CD collection, both devices can store files on an external USB drive.

 

[sansenri]

It is very simple, if there is only one input and no volume control, it is a power amp. As a minimum you must have some kind of volume control and the option to switch between sources. This is what a pre-amp does.
If you put pre-amp and power-amp in 1 box, you have a integrated amp.

thanks, I am aware of all that...
As I mentioned, I currently have two line in sources (CD and streamer, the latter still to be bought) and one phono. The Phono input is however not mandatory at present.
The existing integrated amp is dead (almost), so I need an amp, but with more than one line in...
Old time integrated amps used to have a plethora of input connections, not so today's amps (especially if I look at some of the ASR recommended amps).
I'm tempted with trying a good class D amp, and I'm thinking of a final amp (just amplification, no volume control, only one input, in the class of the Apollon, after all it's my best set up) but that probably means I need a preamp. Any good ones to match the Apollon?

 

[staticV3]

@sansenri
The WiiM Ultra would by my pick.

-Turntable connected to Phono in
-Tuner connected to Line in
-CD Player connected to Optical in (in case of Coax SPDIF out, converters to Optical are cheap and bit-exact)

And the WiiM's RCA Line out connected to an Amp of your choice.

The WiiM's internal DSP can:
-high-pass the output for lower distortion
-filter out room modes for cleaner bass
-apply cartridge correction for better vinyl playback
-do subwoofer integration for greater LFX
- ...

And whatever settings you choose are applied equally to all of your source devices, or disabled/reconfigured on a per-device basis.

 

[Power Pop 23]

that probably means I need a preamp. Any good ones to match the Apollon?

Consider a WiiM Ultra to offer streaming and connections for your CD and eventually a turntable - while also offering access to Parametric EQ and room correction.

 

[Michou]

My main set up needs some re-thinking. It currently consists mainly of a Rega Planar 3 turntable, a Copland CSA 14 integrated amp with phono stage, a pair of ProAc Studio 150s.
Other sources are a Rotel CD Player and a Pioneer Tuner. The latter has become mostly unused, but a streamer+dac to replace it would be welcome, while I would like to maintain the opportunity to play CDs (time ago I went through the core of ripping a lot of my CDs but then the HD they were on died on me and I could not be bothered to run the process all over again).

The problem I am facing now is that the Copland is having issues with one of the channels not working any longer (very low output, highly distorted). Not sure what the issue is, but I suspect one of the valves failing (the CSA 14 is a hybrid amp, with two tubes in the preamp, and mosfets in the final).
These are the Specifications :
Tubes...........................................……..ECC88/6922/6DJ8 x 2
Inputs..........................................……...RIAA, Tuner, Cd, Aux1, Aux2, Tape In
Outputs.........................................……Tape Out
Output Power..................................…..65 watts per channel into 8 ohms
Frequency Response.......................…..5Hz-120kHz, -3dB
Power Bandwidth.............................…5Hz-30kHz, -3dB
Input Sensitivity...............................…Line-level 130mV; Phono 3mV
Input Impedance..............................….Line-level 33k ohms; Phono 47k ohms
Dimensions(w x d x h)......................…43 x 44 x 11cm
Weight..........................................……13kg

I will probably look into fixing the Copland with calm, but in the meantime I would like to put together an alternative set up, mainly requiring a new amp.

The Studio 150s are nice, small size, floorstanders, that don't need huge power (20-150W into 8 ohms), so probably a decent 60 W RMS into 8ohms (similar to the Copland output) would do (willing to try class D or AB), my concern however is how to cope with sources. A preamp might be useful, which would then allow me to use a final amp such as Apollon 1ET6525SA ST (which might even be too much) or similar, high quality (flat response) class D amp.
Phono stage is not mandatory, however if I consider a preamp, then it would make sense for it to be included, I suppose.

My mind is not at all made up yet (I see many good digital amps, but they are very scarse of inputs), and I would like to maintain some flexibility in case I wish to add more sources to the system, at least in the short term the CD player (which is likely to need a dac) and a streamer.

Any advice on different types of set up, and needed gear is welcome!

I would seriously consider a Leak Stereo 230.

It looks like it would cover everything you need in one box: integrated amp, built-in DAC, digital inputs, analogue inputs, and a proper phono stage for the Rega. That means you can keep the turntable, continue using CDs, and later add a streamer if you want to bring streaming back into the system.

It also seems like a very good match for the ProAc Studio 150s. On paper it has enough power for a sensible room, and it avoids the uncertainty of aging hybrid gear. If one channel on the Copland is acting up, replacing it with something current and reliable makes a lot of sense.

The Leak also has a lot going for it sonically and practically. It measures well, with solid bench test results reported by Stereophile, and it has a refined, classic look that feels both vintage-inspired and understated rather than flashy.

For your use case, I think it is a neat and sensible solution. Add a streamer later if needed, and you are set.

 

[amarsicola]

I would start replacing the ProAc with some good-measuring speaker, electronics are secondary and cheaper, with wiim ultra amp you are at state of the art

 

[sansenri]

Consider a AIO (all in one) with integrated DAC/ADC and phono input. Technics, T&A, Quad and others come to mind.

Thanks, in general I prefer to own separates. Although I don't change my gear very often (the current set up dates '90s), separates allow me to change just the single unit when it fails or needs update.

 

[sansenri]

I would seriously consider a Leak Stereo 230.

It looks like it would cover everything you need in one box: integrated amp, built-in DAC, digital inputs, analogue inputs, and a proper phono stage for the Rega. That means you can keep the turntable, continue using CDs, and later add a streamer if you want to bring streaming back into the system.

It also seems like a very good match for the ProAc Studio 150s. On paper it has enough power for a sensible room, and it avoids the uncertainty of aging hybrid gear. If one channel on the Copland is acting up, replacing it with something current and reliable makes a lot of sense.

The Leak also has a lot going for it sonically and practically. It measures well, with solid bench test results reported by Stereophile, and it has a refined, classic look that feels both vintage-inspired and understated rather than flashy.

For your use case, I think it is a neat and sensible solution. Add a streamer later if needed, and you are set.

Thanks, sounds interesting (although not necessarily the only solution), but I'll take a look at it.

 

[sansenri]

I would start replacing the ProAc with some good-measuring speaker, electronics are secondary and cheaper, with wiim ultra amp you are at state of the art

that means throwing the whole system out of the window! (BTW has anyone measured the Proac 150s? I'd wait to see if they are bad measuring first...)
The Ultra is an interesting amp nonetheless.

 

[amarsicola]

I know but the whole point of audiosciencereview is to give "objective" advice... I think there would be no point in adding an objectively good amplifier if frequency response of speakers is bad or unknown. A good option is to send the ProAcs to Amir

 

[Salt]

Thanks, in general I prefer to own separates. Although I don't change my gear very often (the current set up dates '90s), separates allow me to change just the single unit when it fails or needs update.

Thanks for Your personal reply.
So here my setup:
- Waxwing for TT
- Eversolo A6 for streaming
- RME ADI 2/4 Pro SE as Preamp (and for measurements)
- Purifi Amp by Audiophonics for driving passive speakers

 

[Bland_username42069]

Rotel not do anything to match your cd player?

 

[sansenri]

Thanks for Your personal reply.
So here my setup:
- Waxwing for TT
- Eversolo A6 for streaming
- RME ADI 2/4 Pro SE as Preamp (and for measurements)
- Purifi Amp by Audiophonics for driving passive speakers

useful directions, I tend to think I need to go a similar way, preamp + a good stereo final amp.
A modern preamp that accepts also digital inputs is likely to give me the flexibility I need and not constrain me in a rigid solution.

 

[sansenri]

Rotel not do anything to match your cd player?

I'm actually looking at that, I think they have a preamp that might fit (RC-1572 MkII), although I doubt it has been tested here.

​

 

[sansenri]

I know but the whole point of audiosciencereview is to give "objective" advice... I think there would be no point in adding an objectively good amplifier if frequency response of speakers is bad or unknown. A good option is to send the ProAcs to Amir

I see you are in Rome... well, I'm in Milan! Sending my proac 150s to Amir in US for testing I fear is out of the question, each single cabinet weighs 24Kg!...

I'll probably have to settle with the idea of being sure I buy state of the art electronics to be introduced into my system, getting it back to working condition and avoid worsening its performance, for now.

 

[sansenri]

Scusa la franchezza, io fossi in te ripartirei da zero con Kef Q7 / Q11 meta (o guarda su spinorama.org altre torri con buon punteggio, se ti piace il look vintage anche wharfedale linton) e wiim ultra amp, oppure wiim ultra e un qualsiasi finale hypex o purifi di audiophonics. Come cd un smsl PL150. Tutto misurato da audiophonics o da Erin audio corner. Il wiim ultra amp è uno spettacolo a quel prezzo e ci puoi mettere un Fosi X5 come phono.
ProAc, Copland e Rotel hanno tanti estimatori nell'usato, magari alla fine ci avrai pure guadagnato. All'inizio dovrai riabituarti a una risposta in frequenza corretta.

English language is best in this forum, we want others to follow the discussion without needing to use translators.

What I don't understand is why you assume I'm not used to correct frequency response. For one thing this is not my only hifi set up, but in any case there is no proof that my proac 150s are "not linear responce" - which in any case by itself is not a sufficient parameter to judge a technically sound loudspeaker (but if you have specific data on the 150s please provide it!) - and need to be changed.
The Wiim Ultra could nonetheless be a starting point, seeing as my urgent need is a new amp, and the included streamer is an upcoming need.