Seeking advice on asymmetrical room layout and speaker placement

[jaky66]

Hi everyone,
I’m looking for some advice on optimizing my speaker placement and stereo imaging in a an asymmetrical room.

Speakers are currently 75cm from the front wall (which has heavy curtains) and roughly 40-50cm from the side walls.
I sit in a classic equilateral triangle, but the side reflections would be uneven.

My main issue is acoustic asymmetry. From my listening position.
Right side: There is a wall only 100cm away from my head. This wall ends shortly after the listening position, creating a "pocket" or a corner where the door to the hallway is located.
Left side: The space is much more open, with the side wall being about 180cm away from my head without any asymmetries on that side of the room .

I want to achieve the widest possible soundstage without creating an off balance stereo image.

1. Should I stick with a "no toe-in" (parallel) setup to maximize width, or will that destroy the center image due to the 100cm proximity of the right wall?
2. Is it a good idea to use asymmetrical toe-in ? ( keeping the left speaker almost straight while toeing-in the right speaker more aggressively to minimize early reflections from that closer wall).
3. How much will that "pocket" on the right side affect the balance compared to the open space on the left?

Any tips from people dealing with similar asymmetrical layouts would be greatly appreciated!

This is roughly how my room is looking and it's layout, the space between the speakers is about 220-225cm, and from the front of the speakers to my head is about 230cm


Btw, yes, my listening spot is on my bed lol

 

[Duke]

Thank you for the diagram!

I see what looks like an overlay of squares on your diagram. I would try moving the listening position one square forward and two-and-a-half squares to the left, and then re-positioning your speakers accordingly to restore your listening triangle.

I would not use asymmetrical toe-in, but would experiment with different symmetrical toe-in angles.

 

[jaky66]

I would try moving the listening position one square forward and two-and-a-half squares to the left, and then re-positioning your speakers accordingly to restore your listening triangle.

I could try that, but would you suggest then making the space between the speakers a little smaller, and moving the left speaker a little closer to the left wall. I would have to do something like that so I could fit the speakers.
What is the minimum distance you would think is okay for speakers to be away from the sidewalls?
Currently the left one is about 50cm from the left wall.

Thanks for the response.

 

[Duke]

I could try that, but would you suggest then making the space between the speakers a little smaller, and moving the left speaker a little closer to the left wall. I would have to do something like that so I could fit the speakers.

I would try leaving the left speaker where it is and moving the right speaker forward. Your listening triangle will be rotated clockwise maybe fifteen degrees or so, so it might look a bit strange.

 

[jaky66]

Something like this?
Or a little less rotation?

This is about 13 degrees

 

[Torin Krell]

Several options could be tried however quality wifi connected headphones without any digital compression (lossless) would really be the answer here. The room an audio system is situated in is in itself really one of the most critical components of an audio system. Perhaps you have another room available with a semblance of symmetry, which would avoid the inevitable unfortunate compromises this room entails - even with clever choices of listening position and speaker placement.

 

[Duke]

Something like this?
Or a little less rotation?

This is about 13 degrees

Yes, I'd try something like that.

The corner sticking out on the right-hand side could cause a reflection that pulls the image in that direction, so you might need to cover it with something absorptive, at least on the side facing the speaker.

 

[jaky66]

quality wifi connected headphones without any digital compression (lossless) would really be the answer here.

I’m actually transitioning from headphones to speakers. My main issue with headphones has been listening fatigue over longer sessions. The exaggerated stereo separation becomes increasingly distracting over time, and the in-head localization of sound limits the sense of spatial realism. You’re essentially perceiving everything inside your head rather than in a physical space.

Only on certain recordings does it create a convincing illusion of near-field placement, like instruments appearing 20–30 cm in front of or around the listener. I’ve gone through a number of headphone models, but I consistently reach a point where I lose engagement relatively quickly.

Because of that, even a less-than-ideal speaker setup provides a more natural and physically engaging presentation compared to headphones, at least for music listening.

cover it with something absorptive, at least on the side facing the speaker.

Yes, I will try putting something there acting as absorption, thank you for this recommendation, I was pretty narrow-minded in terms of placement before your suggestion

 

[Duke]

Yes, I will try putting something there acting as absorption, thank you for this recommendation, I was pretty narrow-minded in terms of placement before your suggestion

Well my advice is free and worth EVERY penny! So please feel free to experiment well beyond what I've suggested. For instance, an even more "nearfield" setup (with both speakers closer to you) might work better.

 

[Flaesh]

listening triangle will be rotated clockwise

I agree and support this.
This isn't about the best possible outcome, but rather "less bad."

 

[flightops]

Were that my space, the first thing I would do is reverse the speaker and listening portions. That puts your gear and LP in a (for the most part) symmetrical space. Then you just a have a “dog leg” off the main sound axis at the very back, which may not present a problem at all, depending on how near feild you put your MLP. It would at least minimize any of the “dog leg” artifacts.

That at least gives you a chance of getting any first reflections symmetrical and give you a chance at putting up some panels that can has some effect.

The second thing I would do is get a measuring microphone and download REW (free) and take some measurements to find out where the nulls were. Then its fine tuning speaker/sub positioning to optimize what you have. Then panels to smooth out ceiling/wall reflections, SBIR and considering a second sub to try and excite any nulls that won’t go away with just positioning of speakers and listing position.

Actually, second sub before panels is the best way to go because panels don’t eliminate nulls and reflections, they only reduce/smooth them. A second sub can be placed/positioned to possibly excite a null and potentially eliminate it or st least reduce it where, for all practical purpose's, it disappears.

Sound stage and width is about the geometry from speakers to the listening position. Reflections can add some “smear”, but its primarily getting position right (ie: height, equal time/distance to LP, etc).

Now, whether or not any of that works into how you use the space daily is something only you can decide. Its always a balance between SQ and use in a multi-use space.

Good luck.

 

[jaky66]

the first thing I would do is reverse the speaker and listening portions.

Something like this?

Though now the distance between the center of both speakers is about 2m and they are really close to the side walls, about 15cm.

Or maybe something like this is more favorable?
Distance between them is now 1.5m and I moved them slightly forward, and the distance between side walls and speakers is about 35cm.

I guess this would be more of a near field experience as you said since the distance between the speakers is short, and the distance to the LP is only about 2m.

 

[flightops]

That's how I’d start. Then optimize the REW measurements and confirmation with listening tests. You’re just altering positioning, so there’s nothing “permanent” to alter if it’s not the best place. You just try another orientation.

That window behind will likely give you some issues but can probably be (mostly) tamed with some heavy curtains. Bigger the window, bigger the problem.

You’ll have SBIR concerns no matter where you go in that space. Positioning and/or properly designed traps can tame most (if not all) of that.

There will be some nulls at the LP (there always is in a residential setting), but REW will tell you what freq and where to optimize your LP positioning. Sub placement can usually tame (or eliminate) an "unavoidable" room null by adding energy and exciting that null.

I tend to worry less about “reflections” than I do nulls and “smear”. Most spaces aren’t overly bad with Khz freqs, but bass and mid-bass are sq killers to me. I deal with those first and then the higher freqs can usually be handled with relatively thin/unobtrusive panels, assuming they need to be tamed at all after bass sorting. Bass traps are large and hard to hide/minimize aesthetically, so I get those sorted first.

I find once the bass/mid-bass cleans up, the highs become more detailed, defined and delicate because the bass isn’t “smearing” all over the place, which means it just does it's thing and gets out of the way so you can actually "perceive" the highs better.

Anyways, that's the work flow that works for me.

YMMV….

 

[Fslag]

Put a chair in front of the bed