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"Secrets" about the consumer audio business you may find interesting

Shadrach

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I don't understand the outrage. I doubt there is a single contributor here that hasn't helped to encourage these mark ups by buying the equipment, particulalry the so called higher end equipment. I've fallen for the marketing, read the reviews and lusted after this or that many times.
 

Doodski

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I don't understand the outrage. I doubt there is a single contributor here that hasn't helped to encourage these mark ups by buying the equipment, particulalry the so called higher end equipment. I've fallen for the marketing, read the reviews and lusted after this or that many times.
I used to drool on B&K amps... I liked the rack handles.
32042.jpg
 

Blumlein 88

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I used to drool on B&K amps... I liked the rack handles.
32042.jpg
A Mark Levinson ML-3 certainly looks like you get more in your box with handles. Also costs like it. Feels like it too when you pick it up. Had big handles on the front and the back and you needed them.

1663196500248.jpeg
 

Blumlein 88

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Or you could get a Sumo Nine power amp. Had handles, but is smaller than it looks in this picture.

1663196756558.png


1663196821379.jpeg
 
OP
kemmler3D

kemmler3D

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I don't understand the outrage. I doubt there is a single contributor here that hasn't helped to encourage these mark ups by buying the equipment, particulalry the so called higher end equipment. I've fallen for the marketing, read the reviews and lusted after this or that many times.

I think if there is any outrage, it's probably misplaced. I was hoping to make it clear that "high" markups are necessary and often aren't even high enough for audio companies to survive and thrive.

Now, if you are buying something with a 40:1 MSRP:COGS ratio maybe you should be outraged, but 4:1 or even 7:1 is probably reasonable depending on the details. :)
 

Kevinfc

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The computer industry is really good at this. From the days of Windows 3.1, I told my wife "I refuse to buy a pre-built computer"! I started building with 386 machines and I always came out cheaper than buying. Each of my children built their own PC (except my daughter...hmm). Here we are in 2022 and I believe I've built my last dedicated PC ...as the cost of goods have come to a point that it makes no sense to DIY anymore.
Been that way for a while. I used to build my own too.
 

tomelex

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Not sure I understand. Something in the amp or a general question about the amp?
looks like something to do with the output power devices connections or mounting
 

Blumlein 88

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I circled in red some sort of strap or fastener. It's towards the bottom of the page on the Amp PCB.
Guess I didn't look too closely. Oops. Been too long since I was looking in one, but look like output transistor connections.
 

Hiten

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What are these for? It's unusual.
From
https://www.audiovintage.fr/2020/07/22/mark-levinson-ml-3/
looks like Transistors. Sure looks unusual because one terminal (probably casing) of transistor is made common with adjacent transistor.
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on topic out of curiousity...
as margins depends on number of unit sales. what would be rough estimate of (lets say) total stereo integrated amplifier 'Units' sales during golden years (70s/80s ?) compared to modern times. Probably difficult to estimate world sales, but US/UK countries may have some figures.
thanks and regards.
 

Doodski

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rough estimate of (lets say) total stereo integrated amplifier 'Units' sales during golden year
Wowzer. I've never been asked that question. Total global units and national units of stereo integrated amplifier sales is a unknown.
 

John Atkinson

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Thanks for replying John, and I'm curious what the CC rates were back then? These days they're mostly below 2.9% plus a few cents per transaction...
IIRC, Amex was charging vendors 8% in the early 1980s.

John Atkinson
Technical Editor, Stereophile
 

HorizonsEdge

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The same, but not exactly the same. Both the audio magazines and the car rags operate in symbiotic conjunction with the industry. Differences? There's a lot of editorial opinion variability within car mags; not so much in the hi-fi press.
Worth noting that there is quite a bit of regulation for vehicles; guard rails. No such thing exists for audio, so wild wild west.
 

HorizonsEdge

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Let me start by saying that I love this site and ever since I've found it, it has made a large impact on my purchase decisions.

I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to audio gear, but I'm learning.

One of the points raised in this essay is that alot of companies don't measure. We bring this up often when we see speakers or headphones deviating from the Harman curve. I'll call up the Micca Rb42s for example. It received so much praise from the likes of Zeos and Joe-n-tell but it's measured very poor here. It has fantastic reviews online. Another good example is the Stage A135c. Online reviews are stellar. Compliance to Harman curve is poor. It should sound like shit, but people like it.

I recently purchased the Akg k371, applied the eqs suggested here, and I was prepared to be blown away. I sounded great, but I still like my T-60p Argons better which are no where close to the Harman curve.

What's accounting for this ? Hearing differences, music we listen to, people not knowing what they're listening to is supposed to sound like, or could it be that the Harman curve needs to be re-evaluated?
Subjectivity and familiarity. Human conditioning. We are all different with different experiences and this affects our preferences.

Pizza is my bell whether. There is a saying that even bad pizza is good pizza but I do not agree. I find that I prefer pizza with a sauce that tastes most like the pizza I ate as a youngster. The shop around the corner from my grandmas' house. I ate there for years before trying other pizza. While I can appreciate other styles and technical excellence I still crave that original flavor. It so f'ed up and so human. I have yet been able to find a pizza therapist )
 

Blumlein 88

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Subjectivity and familiarity. Human conditioning. We are all different with different experiences and this affects our preferences.

Pizza is my bell whether. There is a saying that even bad pizza is good pizza but I do not agree. I find that I prefer pizza with a sauce that tastes most like the pizza I ate as a youngster. The shop around the corner from my grandmas' house. I ate there for years before trying other pizza. While I can appreciate other styles and technical excellence I still crave that original flavor. It so f'ed up and so human. I have yet been able to find a pizza therapist )
Do you need a pizza therapist? Tell us your opinion of pineapple pizza....then we will know if you need a referral to a Neapolitan Pizza school.
 

fpitas

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It's funny that my Chinese made Midea washing machine has 2 years full warranty, while everything else that is at least 50% more expensive to vastly more expensive only offers 1.

And yeah it's really rich to complain about quality of Chinese goods when you don't even have a foot across the low quality door, let alone at quality per $.
Having talked with engineers tasked with transitioning production to Chinese and other facilities, the determination of quality is almost always up to the customer, not the facility. If you simply throw things over the fence and hope for good product, you probably will be disappointed. Unfortunately, these decisions are usually made as a bottom line thing, so spending significantly more to work out quality assurance is minimized.
 

Blumlein 88

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Having talked with engineers tasked with transitioning production to Chinese and other facilities, the determination of quality is almost always up to the customer, not the facility. If you simply throw things over the fence and hope for good product, you probably will be disappointed. Unfortunately, these decisions are usually made as a bottom line thing, so spending significantly more to work out quality assurance is minimized.
That has been what I've been told as well. OTOH, China factories do seem to have a problem with making near useless items if no one holds their feet to the fire. I think of some power supplies in Chinese gear I've looked at. If a device will see 1 watt or .95 watts, they will put a a 1 watt rated device in it. They do that all the way thru. Just basic rule of thumb would be to use a 2 watt device in that situation. Such an item will work, some of them surprisingly last some time. Most of them are not going to last very long. While using those with a simple rule of thumb safety factor will last a very long useful time. If the Chinese facility had a recognized name with value they would not stoop to this to make money. When they are insulated from that, they have no reason to do otherwise. It pains me that those selling this gear elsewhere don't do their homework, and see they don't mind selling such products.

Yet China can make some very good top level gear when the customer commissions it.
 
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