Searching for the 'missing' piece in <$200 headphones line up to end 2020

[thewas]

I'm starting to believe that "haters" hate the Nighthawk for two main reasons :

1. Because their manufacturer is known for selling snake oil in the form of expensive audiophile cables (that part is absolutely true, but it has nothing to do with designing headphones),
2. Because they never managed to understand what the Nighthawk is really for :
   • If you want an over-analytical headphone with over-emphasized treble, this ain't it. he NHC will never hurt your ears with piercing highs a la Beyerdynamic.
   • If you want a neutral headphone like the HD600 (that I own too) and you get a NHC, you are gonna say : "what is this s**t ?", because you will be focusing on neutrality, to the point that you won't notice the NHC's real qualities.
   • But if you know in advance what the NHC is supposed to deliver, then you can't be surprised, and you can fully appreciate it for what it is.

I am afraid that such believes based on generalisations and exaggerations are just... believes...
I am not a person who likes over-analytical headphone with over-emphasized treble at all and love bass but the problems of the NH(C) are different, mainly the overbloated lower mids which give a honky/muddy’ sound see https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/audio-quest/ and its weird tuning based on a misunderstanding of calibration curves https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-harman-target-curve.17914/page-5#post-595489 which doesnt have the usual rise of the ear canal resonance that any neutral sound has when measured at the ear entrance.

For the interested buyer that doesn't mean that I say not to give it a try (I almost bought a pair myself after EQing the test sample I had), but only if you have the possibility to EQ it and/or to send it back as otherwise the chance can be quite high that they might not be happy with its very special tonality.

 

[tinytea]

First off, love the way you've written this haha.

Because they never managed to understand what the Nighthawk is really for :

• But if you know in advance what the NHC is supposed to deliver, then you can't be surprised, and you can fully appreciate it for what it is.

Take a look at this: I ordered myself a Periodic Audio Titanium IEMS for dirt cheap on Amazon warehouse discounts because I wanted to understand what the bass that i've been missing actually is lol.

So what you're telling me is that I can have the same bass in the NHC that I'm listening to right now that is giving me warm tingles in the back of my head from time to time.

Not only that, you want to show me a graph that tells me what I will get all that midrange clarity and detail back?

And give me some more natural treble as well?

I actually laughed when I opened the graph and compared the two.

And for reference I'm literally test running the Ti's now and Frank Ocean - Pyramids, his ad libs just shine through the warm bass background that I have never experienced in any IEMs before. And i'm like what the hell? He did that?

Also this doesn't mean I don't like the Massdrop universal IEMS which are more neutral sounding. But for these types of songs, preference? Yes if you ask me lol, I'm going for these Titaniums I also read and it seems that Periodic have a decent science based approach - its definitely good that they have their measurements easily seen so I knew what I was getting.
- So, I know what you mean, horses for courses. They are different.

Yeah NHC sounds fun for sure, I'm regretting letting the regular NH go, if nothing but for just to try. This sounds like a headphone I want to try in my lifetime regardless lol so thank you for that.

(on a personal side, that may be one of the reasons why the user manual is called a flight manual : the first time I pushed the vol knob, it weirdly felt like a plane taking off : louder and louder but always clear and without hiccups

Hilarious mate. Oh yeah that sounds awesome, I've definitely had that experience where I wanna go higher but the treble starts screaming at me or scratching and distorting, to be able to run smoothly (of course at safe listening levels) is great.


Can I ask a favour:

What do people think this difference equates to?

 

[scorePO]

The Philips Fidelio X2HR

+1 for the Fidelio.

Not my personal taste, but as I read the OP, the X2 first came into my mind.
Compared to the DT770, the Philips has a lot more deep bass where the Beyer doesn't go very deep but kicks a bit more.
And the 770 can be fatiguing in the highs due to the well known "Beyer-Peak".

 

[escape2]

Say it ain't so!
- An open back with bass?

X2HR has some bass, but nowhere near the amount of bass that ATH M50x has. If you're a bass head, you'll find X2HR bass lacking, IMO.

 

[tinytea]

@Robin L + @frogmeat69

Thanks for X2HR suggestion btw, I did research on them and they are being considered. I simply cannot edit my OP any more to add it to the list.

Also had forgotten to say thanks for the suggestion and ref' links they helped.
Difficult to respond to multiple people about multiple different headphones and angles

 

[tinytea]

For the interested buyer that doesn't mean that I say not to give it a try (I almost bought a pair myself after EQing the test sample I had), but only if you have the possibility to EQ it and/or to send it back as otherwise the chance can be quite high that they might not be happy with its very special tonality.

Thanks, interesting to see the hump slightly more pronounced in solderdude's measurements. Wonder what that sounds like. Will take a closer look later on this evening at the links.

Good advice on the EQ, and yes definitely seeing the value of a good returns policy haha

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

What do people think this difference equates to?

First of all, I wouldn't trust headphone measurements blindly. There can be errors due to the protocol, the equipment, the headphones themselves, etc.. But anyway.

• What I see is the NHC (red) more warm-sounding than the Denon, because of that 100-600 Hz part.
• I would also be a bit worried of the Denon's 2-4 KHz peak, which supposedly corresponds to the ear canal resonance. You could like it or find it a little too present. Just one hint : ear canal resonance isn't fixed : it also depends on the ear canal diameter. I for one have small ear canals, as certified by several specialists.
• Little detail, the Denon seems to give up juuust a little below 30 Hz. It's a small detail but...
• Of course the Denon is fully closed, so that's another difference.
• You can probably listen to the Denon in a shop, whereas it will be difficult to listen to the NHC as they're hardly sold anymore.
• Last but not least, as you know FR is not everything : construction, driver quality, weight, comfort, etc..

I hope I can compare both one day, but I'll need to borrow a Denon for that, because both can't be compared in shops.

As for the Fidelio, they're nice but they don't play in the same field. They're cheaper cans in all aspects. On sale they can be found below 100 €/$, which is a bargain for people on a budget.

 

[frogmeat69]

Like @Jose Hidalgo has said, the Nighthawk is a great headphone, if you understand it is a different breed compared to most others.
And yes, the cables are not good. I have the original Hawk with the long, kinked up cable that some how is still holding up for me, even though many people claimed of it failing quickly.
I also have the Night Owl Carbon, which has the fat rubber cable that's like hooking a garden hose to your cans, just awful. Luckily, I bought them from a guy on Head Fi, and he threw in an extra Oppo cable that came with the PM-1 or PM-2 cans, which were very well built quality cables, I have a balanced one also from when I owned the PM-1. Regret selling that headphone, even though I made a profit,.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

the fat rubber cable that's like hooking a garden hose to your cans

THIS ! THIS !! *laughing emoji awfully missing on ASR*
Seriously though, that's absolutely right. That's the NHC cable, thankfully it can be changed easily.

 

[tinytea]

Guys I just heard Billie Jean for the first time ever apparently.

And a few other tracks...haha!

*laughing emoji awfully missing on ASR*

I agree! I cannot properly capture my emotions. Also for mind blown I have to use Ghost face or spinny eyes.

 

[brachypelma44]

the fat rubber cable that's like hooking a garden hose to your cans, just awful.

You sure you're not talking about the stock cable for the Sundara? I'm counting the days until my periapt cable for it arrives and I never have to touch that cable ever again.

 

[Helicopter]

You sure you're not talking about the stock cable for the Sundara? I'm counting the days until my periapt cable for it arrives and I never have to touch that cable ever again.

Periapt is the best! You will love it. I get them whenever I want something even better than I normally DIY, and as a former aircraft inspector, I have high expectations.

 

[tinytea]

Periapt is the best! You will love it. I get them whenever I want something even better than I normally DIY, and as a former aircraft inspector, I have high expectations.

Cool

I see the genesis of your name now, also I am going to like your post reply because currently you are stuck at 66(5+1)

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

You sure you're not talking about the stock cable for the Sundara? I'm counting the days until my periapt cable for it arrives and I never have to touch that cable ever again.

I have a Sundara and a NHC.
You don't like the Sundara's cable ? I understand why. Could be better.
But it's HEAVEN compared to the NHC's cable. HEAVEN. *laughing emoji still awfully missing from ASR*

But tinytea, don't let this scare you. The NHC is so worth it, that once you have listened to it with the stock cable, you'll be happy to get a replacement cable. It won't improve the sound, but it will definitely improve the experience.

BTW I wish there was a Periapt/Hart equivalent in Europe ! Currently looking for it here.