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Search for "Endgame"? (the bad bad word) :)

Todd k

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Having owned the Hifiman 400 and the Arya and 3 pairs of senns 600 660s and hd800 this is my experience. The hifimans arya are great, but recenntly got a jinky connecter, Hifiman wil, replace them for 400$. So minus one for quality control. All the senns have been rock solid and my original 600 pair is now 20 years old and still kicking. Of all my cans the 800’s are my favorites. They just have a special feeling of space of sound that none of my other cans do. I have fostex purple hearts, great bass. focals meh. great value in Hifiman if you get good ones. Sennheiser tough to beat and built to last. Other than changing ear pads no issues with my senns. I’m sure that RME will be great though, if I did not already have 4 headphones amp that would be my choice. Side note I love those truth ear iem’s. Best $50 u will ever spend and I have a pair of $1200 JH audio custom iem’s , the truths are almost as good.
 
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Berwhale

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I suggest you learn how to apply parametric EQ (PEQ) to improve the response of your HD-6XX before spending any money on new equipment. There's a list of EQ applications for various operating systems (including Android) here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ows-linux-macos-ios-ipados-and-android.18450/

It's worth mentioning that both the RME desktop DAC/Amp and Qudelix 5K portable DAC/Amp offer PEQ in 'hardware'. This means you can apply the same PEQ to each device and have that PEQ apply to whatever software or hardware is driving the RME or Qudelix. This is a key selling point for many, including myself. Also, I have no issues driving my HD660S from my Q5K, it sounds great (with PEQ applied).
 

FrantzM

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So i read practically the complete Hifiman HE6Se V2 Thread. What i found was:

- needs a nuclear power plant to power them
- had to return 2 defect units
- sounds amazing

I am torn apart now, since even the ADI 2 isn't powerful enough to power them. I don't want to risk a unfriendly vendor not accepting the return of defect units either :/

The 800s seems to be bether build and easier to drive. No big complaints
:D

I believe the ADI 2 will drive it to sane levels.. Calling @solderdude !!
HE6SE QC is all over the place... However I had to return mine only once :confused: ...
It does sound amazing.

I would suggest that you to heed the advices of @Berwhale in post #23. Get the ADI FS2 or the Qudelix 5K and learn to use the PEQ on your current headphones. There is a list of Amir's own PEQ settings for headphones he reviewed somewhere in ASR
Oratory 1990 has a PEQ List Presets HERE
And even a List Specific for the ADI FS 2 which accounts for the devices limitations...

Peace.
 
OP
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MMeirolas

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Having owned the Hifiman 4thanks00 and the Arya and 3 pairs of senns 600 660s and hd800 this is my experience. The hifimans arya are great, but recenntly got a jinky connecter, Hifiman wil, replace them for 400$. So minus one for quality control. All the senns have been rock solid and my original 600 pair is now 20 years old and still kicking. Of all my cans the 800’s are my favorites. They just have a special feeling of space of sound that none of my other cans do. I have fostex purple hearts, great bass. focals meh. great value in Hifiman if you get good ones. Sennheiser tough to beat and built to last. Other than changing ear pads no issues with my senns. I’m sure that RME will be great though, if I did not already have 4 headphones amp that would be my choice. Side note I love those truth ear iem’s. Best $50 u will ever spend and I have a pair of $1200 JH audio custom iem’s , the truths are almost as good.
Thanks for your reply

Yeah, Hifiman seems to be kind of a lottery :/

With Sennheiser i won't have any trouble finding replacement parts if anything happens.
My 6XX are already 3 years old and top notch, only the pads had to be replaced.
And i should be able to demo them here somewhere :)

Tough arguments
 
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MMeirolas

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I suggest you learn how to apply parametric EQ (PEQ) to improve the response of your HD-6XX before spending any money on new equipment. There's a list of EQ applications for various operating systems (including Android) here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ows-linux-macos-ios-ipados-and-android.18450/

It's worth mentioning that both the RME desktop DAC/Amp and Qudelix 5K portable DAC/Amp offer PEQ in 'hardware'. This means you can apply the same PEQ to each device and have that PEQ apply to whatever software or hardware is driving the RME or Qudelix. This is a key selling point for many, including myself. Also, I have no issues driving my HD660S from my Q5K, it sounds great (with PEQ applied).
Actually i learned about Wavelet a few minutes ago and applied the HD6XX setting. Imediate improvement in SQ. Amazing...

Is there a way to improve it even further, or is this presst already great?

Cheers
 
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MMeirolas

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:D

I believe the ADI 2 will drive it to sane levels.. Calling @solderdude !!
HE6SE QC is all over the place... However I had to return mine only once :confused: ...
It does sound amazing.

I would suggest that you to heed the advices of @Berwhale in post #23. Get the ADI FS2 or the Qudelix 5K and learn to use the PEQ on your current headphones. There is a list of Amir's own PEQ settings for headphones he reviewed somewhere in ASR
Oratory 1990 has a PEQ List Presets HERE
And even a List Specific for the ADI FS 2 which accounts for the devices limitations...

Peace.
Hey,

According to a loooooot of people the ADI 2 is not enough for that Hifiman :/

I have applied the Wavelet 6XX preset and improvement was immediate.

Will look into AMIR's settings and the other stuff.

Thanks a lot :)
 

Berwhale

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Actually i learned about Wavelet a few minutes ago and applied the HD6XX setting. Imediate improvement in SQ. Amazing...

Is there a way to improve it even further, or is this presst already great?

Cheers

Yes, PEQ settings from places like AutoEQ (which I think Wavelet gets them from) is just the start. These settings will correct to a 'preference curve' which might be an average listener preference in the case of something like the Harman target, or an individual preference by a reviewer like Oratory1990 or Crinacle.

Oratory1990 gives clues on how to adjust his PEQ settings for your own preference. Here's the relevant part of the HD600S settings I linked to above....

1676669822282.png


Unfortunately, Oratory1990 doesn't seem to have measured the HD 6XX (full list here: https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets/)

You can play with measurements vs target curves using this tool: https://sai.squig.link/?share=Harman_OE_2018_Linear_Target,HD6XX
 
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M

MMeirolas

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Which amps do you own? :)
Having owned the Hifiman 400 and the Arya and 3 pairs of senns 600 660s and hd800 this is my experience. The hifimans arya are great, but recenntly got a jinky connecter, Hifiman wil, replace them for 400$. So minus one for quality control. All the senns have been rock solid and my original 600 pair is now 20 years old and still kicking. Of all my cans the 800’s are my favorites. They just have a special feeling of space of sound that none of my other cans do. I have fostex purple hearts, great bass. focals meh. great value in Hifiman if you get good ones. Sennheiser tough to beat and built to last. Other than changing ear pads no issues with my senns. I’m sure that RME will be great though, if I did not already have 4 headphones amp that would be my choice. Side note I love those truth ear iem’s. Best $50 u will ever spend and I have a pair of $1200 JH audio custom iem’s , the truths are almost as good.
 

pagan84

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I suggest you learn how to apply parametric EQ (PEQ) to improve the response of your HD-6XX before spending any money on new equipment. There's a list of EQ applications for various operating systems (including Android) here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ows-linux-macos-ios-ipados-and-android.18450/

It's worth mentioning that both the RME desktop DAC/Amp and Qudelix 5K portable DAC/Amp offer PEQ in 'hardware'. This means you can apply the same PEQ to each device and have that PEQ apply to whatever software or hardware is driving the RME or Qudelix. This is a key selling point for many, including myself. Also, I have no issues driving my HD660S from my Q5K, it sounds great (with PEQ applied).

I tried to PEQ my HD6XX a few days ago (Harman 2018 curve) and... WOW, just WOW.
Looks like now I can tell more objectively if a given master sounds ok or not (to me of course), stock HD6XX just doesn't go well with some mixes/masters.

Also I received mentioned IEMs, Fanmusic TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero, and again BIG WOW. My first IEMs, I couldn't believe they sounded like that and were just £50.
They are replacing everything I use @ work/gym/running/bed lol.

Anyway guys, what is realistically an endgame for rock/metal? Metal doesn't scale up very well. Series XS? EQued HD800?

Cheers,
M.
 

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OP
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MMeirolas

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I tried to PEQ my HD6XX a few days ago (Harman 2018 curve) and... WOW, just WOW.
Looks like now I can tell more objectively if a given master sounds ok or not (to me of course), stock HD6XX just doesn't go well with some mixes/masters.

Also I received mentioned IEMs, Fanmusic TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero, and again BIG WOW. My first IEMs, I couldn't believe they sounded like that and were just £50.
They are replacing everything I use in work/gym/running/bed lol.

Anyway guys, what is realistically an endgame for rock/metal? Metal doesn't scale up very well. Series XS? EQued HD800?

Cheers,
M.
Hey there,

good to know that you managed to PEQ your 6XX :)

I managed to do it on Android using Wavelet and SoundID. Improvement is there no question, the only issue is that it works for Spotify, not for USBAPP/Tidal... Which is the source i usw the most...

Do you have a way of doing that? I know that USBAPP has it's own EQ but as a total boob i have no idea what to do there :(

Thanks
 

pagan84

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Hey there,

good to know that you managed to PEQ your 6XX :)

I managed to do it on Android using Wavelet and SoundID. Improvement is there no question, the only issue is that it works for Spotify, not for USBAPP/Tidal... Which is the source i usw the most...

Do you have a way of doing that? I know that USBAPP has it's own EQ but as a total boob i have no idea what to do there :(

Thanks
Hey hey,
Good to hear that.
I use HD6XX at home only and only with my laptop, so it's always Foobar2000+EQ plugin -> ASIO driver -> Fiio K7.

Crinacle Zero + Galaxy S8/Laptop for the rest, so I don't need to EQ them :) Great success :)

I can't help you with EQuing the whole Android, don't know how to do that.
 
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MMeirolas

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Hey hey,
Good to hear that.
I use HD6XX at home only and only with my laptop, so it's always Foobar2000+EQ plugin -> ASIO driver -> Fiio K7.

Crinacle Zero + Galaxy S8/Laptop for the rest, so I don't need to EQ them :) Great success :)

I can't help you with EQuing the whole Android, don't know how to do that.
No problem :)

Is your Mobile as good as your Desktop experience?
 

pagan84

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No problem :)

Is your Mobile as good as your Desktop experience?

I definitely need more time to tell, but:
- my main music genere is more about mood/anger (metal, rock) than technicalities (also poor mixing)
- mainstream pop needs to sound good on the radio so it is not that layered/complicated, also often heavily processed (so unnatural).
(For example - Dua Lipa - I dont think she would sound better on Abbyss headphones, but I might be wrong lol)
(Kate Bush - first two albums - I hear no details, everything is shrouded in a mist, this is how i visualise it)

For the things above I'm 120% happy with HD6XX/Zero. I know, HD6XX cant really go below 40Hz, maybe even 50Hz but the music I mentioned doesn't go there anyway.

I think I'll be slowly drifting away towards some Jazz and maybe even classical music, where I can hear a sound's texture.
 

notsodeadlizard

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Hello guys,

i'm not a very active member, rather an avid reader of this community.

If there's anything i learned while reading a lot of so called "Hifi-Communities" is that words "lie", numbers don't. So i thank all the people that do measurements around here :D

Right now i'm using my LG V40 + HD6XX, and despite sounding good (and not fatiguing), i don't experience hat "Neck-Hair-Up-Chills-Tear-In-My-Eye-Sensation" i had 20 years on a Hifi Demo Show.

So i think it might be time to step up, pull out my wallet and try to find that "Engame" gear that will give me that sensation back. Just be HAPPY with my music again.

There is really no place here where i live (Germany) where i can try out a lot of stuff that has been measured and raved about at ASR.
Finding a shop where i can Demo a RMI 2 DAC FS, a Topping A90, Shiit and what not is just not possible.

So i have to trust the advice of this great community :)

Would you keep the HD6XX and invest in something like a RMI 2 DAC FS (i know the Headphone should be the most expensive item), or change first the HD6XX and then take it from there?

My favourite genre is Rock: anything from classic rock the more modern/hard stuff. But i enjoy electronic music as well, and since i have the gear i have i started enjoying Jazz, Classical and so on. So it would have to be something suitable for most Genres.

Portability would be nice but not a must.

I would be willing to spend 2000-2500€ tops.

Would love to read some advices for this Noob :)

Thanks a lot and keep up the great work
There are no ready recipes :(

But there are proven rules of thumb and the most important one is: speakers should be the most expensive thing in your system. In other words, never buy an amplifier for more than speakers, a CD drive for more than speakers, etc.
The second one: do not waste money on completely dead technologies, for example, on a CD player.
The third one: audio equipment from brands with a long history are designed by excellent specialists and everything that you buy for a reasonable price will be approximately the same regardless of the manufacturer.
The fourth one: revolutions in the design of analog parts of audio systems are long gone. So what was good 10 years ago is not the worst today.
And the last one: it's better to stop when your equipment allows you to confidently distinguish a bad mastered recording from a good one. It won't get any better.

So start with the speakers, choose what you and your loved ones like (including the appearance in the first place). In the range of 700-1000 euros, all speakers will be good.
The rest can be added according to the rules of thumb. If it's second hand in good condition, nothing will happen to you. Just do not buy a completely ancient one that requires additional investment in recap (old capacitors replacement) or other components replacement.
 
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MMeirolas

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There are no ready recipes :(

But there are proven rules of thumb and the most important one is: speakers should be the most expensive thing in your system. In other words, never buy an amplifier for more than speakers, a CD drive for more than speakers, etc.
The second one: do not waste money on completely dead technologies, for example, on a CD player.
The third one: audio equipment from brands with a long history are designed by excellent specialists and everything that you buy for a reasonable price will be approximately the same regardless of the manufacturer.
The fourth one: revolutions in the design of analog parts of audio systems are long gone. So what was good 10 years ago is not the worst today.
And the last one: it's better to stop when your equipment allows you to confidently distinguish a bad mastered recording from a good one. It won't get any better.

So start with the speakers, choose what you and your loved ones like (including the appearance in the first place). In the range of 700-1000 euros, all speakers will be good.
The rest can be added according to the rules of thumb. If it's second hand in good condition, nothing will happen to you. Just do not buy a completely ancient one that requires additional investment in recap (old capacitors replacement) or other components replacement.
Thanks a lot

Sadly i don't have the space for a Speaker setup. Have to stick to Headphones/Earphones

Cheers
 

notsodeadlizard

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Thanks a lot

Sadly i don't have the space for a Speaker setup. Have to stick to Headphones/Earphones

Cheers
Rules will be the same.
And it will be formidable headphones in a 700-1000 euros range.
And a beautiful system in result.
For example, from the end device to a source(s):
Grado SR1x (headphones) + Shiit Valhalla 2 (amp) + Shiit Modi Multibit 2 (DAC) + some nice vinyl machine with pre-amp if you want because you are still in initial budget.
It's a perfect system like any other built from good components made by good brands.
It is possible to make such a system radically more expensive, but it will not turn out radically better.
 

JeffS7444

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Potentially "Yes" to the RME if you take advantage of it's more advanced features including parametric equalization and headphone crossfeed. If you don't have the means of measuring headphone frequency response for yourself, look for someone who has already determined appropriate filter parameters to use.
 
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MMeirolas

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Potentially "Yes" to the RME if you take advantage of it's more advanced features including parametric equalization and headphone crossfeed. If you don't have the means of measuring headphone frequency response for yourself, look for someone who has already determined appropriate filter parameters to use.
Thanks a lot,

Didn't know about this concept, but looks promising. I'll look for a crossfeed app for Android.

EQ gave my 6XX a new life, so i am not sure if spending 1000€ on the RME would improve the sound much compared to my LG V40...

Maybe i can try it out first befor commiting

Cheers
 

pagan84

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Thanks a lot,

Didn't know about this concept, but looks promising. I'll look for a crossfeed app for Android.

EQ gave my 6XX a new life, so i am not sure if spending 1000€ on the RME would improve the sound much compared to my LG V40...

Maybe i can try it out first befor commiting

Cheers
Both my laptop and phone were too weak to play quiet masters on HD6XX. EQed HD6XX needs even more power. Even E10k was too weak.

Anyway it would be nice if someone could give me an example (track and timestamp) where he can hear a difference between DACs or amps.
For me it is mainly my mood and volume level. It is even hard to compare headphones as I need to pug them out/in and change the volume level.

The only easy thing is comparing masters, two rips level matched by ReplayGain, easy-peasy.
Also I noticed that lossy compression can make music to sound 'better' (smoother?).
Also a lot of metal CD releases from the 80s have different sound (different EQ) or at least volume-level shifts. Why? No idea lol.
(For example: Mercyful Fate - Melissa. 1985, 1987 and Japanese 1990 - all three have different EQ).

Cheers.
 
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