Search for a compact subwoofer, SVS 1000 Pro or Kali WS 6.2?

[Miguelón]

Hello, is time to add a compact sub to my office.

The room is 5 x 4 meters (16 x 13 feet), active monitors Genelec G Three (home version of 8030C), AVR is WiiM Ultra (2 RCA stereo outputs, 1 RCA sub output)

I recently discover good deal in SVS 1000 Pro, and the current price of the Kali WS 6.2 is on the same range.

I listen mainly jazz and classical, sometimes rock but not very heavy based music. Eventually I connect my computer monitor to the system and watch some films, but cannot go very loud or Deep because neighbours.

Kali has a recent Erin's review with a very accurate response, altthough not going as low as SVS.

On the other side, my monitors are confined into a 3 meters "sub space" because a kitchen bar perpendicular to the wall (1.5 length, 1 meter high). The subwoofer should be placed in this 3 meter part of the 5 meters wall.

I'm worried about the 2 lateral firing woofers of the Kali, that can rebound on the 1- 1.5 meters lateral limits, but don't know if this matters in the 30 - 85 Hz I would crossover the sub Signal.

Will SVS 1000 pro be a better option? The response is not as linear but has a 12 inch woofer and is front firing with no ports.

Any advice to my decisión? Both seem excellent subs.

 

[phlio]

iloud sub, i think it's great which includes Arc X.

 

[dominikz]

Hello, is time to add a compact sub to my office.

The room is 5 x 4 meters (16 x 13 feet), active monitors Genelec G Three (home version of 8030C), AVR is WiiM Ultra (2 RCA stereo outputs, 1 RCA sub output)

I recently discover good deal in SVS 1000 Pro, and the current price of the Kali WS 6.2 is on the same range.

I listen mainly jazz and classical, sometimes rock but not very heavy based music. Eventually I connect my computer monitor to the system and watch some films, but cannot go very loud or Deep because neighbours.

Kali has a recent Erin's review with a very accurate response, altthough not going as low as SVS.

On the other side, my monitors are confined into a 3 meters "sub space" because a kitchen bar perpendicular to the wall (1.5 length, 1 meter high). The subwoofer should be placed in this 3 meter part of the 5 meters wall.

I'm worried about the 2 lateral firing woofers of the Kali, that can rebound on the 1- 1.5 meters lateral limits, but don't know if this matters in the 30 - 85 Hz I would crossover the sub Signal.

Will SVS 1000 pro be a better option? The response is not as linear but has a 12 inch woofer and is front firing with no ports.

Any advice to my decisión? Both seem excellent subs.

The side woofers wouldn't be a problem - bass is anyway omnidirectional at such low frequencies, so sound waves will reflect from these boundaries no matter how you orient the sub, and whichever model you select.

Of the two models you're considering I'd personally go for the SVS. SVS goes a little bit deeper and a little bit louder than the Kali, at least according to published CEA-2010 measurements.

Whichever sub you choose I'd suggest to take time to optimize placement of both sub and speakers to minimize SBIR nulls/cancellations, and to optimize the crossover. After this is done, I'd suggest to apply room correction (e.g. WiiM RoomFit which is built-in to your Ultra) to take care of any peaks/resonances in the 20Hz to 300Hz range.
I've recently collected some advice for all this on the WiiM forum.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[Mort]

I like the svs-1000 also. You'll get more out of the additional range than additional accuracy at those frequencies.

 

[Miguelón]

The side woofers wouldn't be a problem - bass is anyway omnidirectional at such low frequencies, so sound waves will reflect from these boundaries no matter how you orient the sub, and whichever model you select.

Of the two models you're considering I'd personally go for the SVS. SVS goes a little bit deeper and a little bit louder than the Kali, at least according to published CEA-2010 measurements.

Whichever sub you choose I'd suggest to take time to optimize placement of both sub and speakers to minimize SBIR nulls/cancellations, and to optimize the crossover. After this is done, I'd suggest to apply room correction (e.g. WiiM RoomFit which is built-in to your Ultra) to take care of any peaks/resonances in the 20Hz to 300Hz range.
I've recently collected some advice for all this on the WiiM forum.

Good luck and have fun!

Thanks for your advice, actually I only have place to 1 subwoofer so the low bass should be adjusted to not a huge spot.

I was interested on the aspect of fast response in transients that can have 6.5 inch woofers against 12 inches, but I don’t know if this is a myth or is really an audible “tightness” in favor of smaller woofers.

 

[dominikz]

I was interested on the aspect of fast response in transients that can have 6.5 inch woofers against 12 inches, but I don’t know if this is a myth or is really an audible “tightness” in favor of smaller woofers.

It is a myth. A smaller woofer will not play as deep, which some confuse for 'speed'.

Thanks for your advice, actually I only have place to 1 subwoofer so the low bass should be adjusted to not a huge spot.

A single subwoofer is perfectly fine if you need to optimize the response for a single seat. But proper placement and integration is still crucial for good bass quality.

 

[pehu63]

I added the Kali to my genelec 8030c.
Rationalize, symmetrical firing, so no contact sound, keeping neighbors happy.
Sound is great, did not expect such an improvement, the genelecs are great already.

 

[aku]

Yeah, for OPs neighbor's sake I'd recommend the Kali. If you go for the SVS, consider adding some vibration insulation under it.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Yeah, for OPs neighbor's sake I'd recommend the Kali. If you go for the SVS, consider adding some vibration insulation under it.

My old (non-"Pro" with built-in 80 Hz high-pass) SB-1000 lives on a table for the sake of my downstairs neighbors.

 

[Rick63]

I was looking for a new sub a couple of years ago to pair with my Dynaudio BM5 MKIII monitors and was considering those two options myself. After further research I ordered a Speedwoofer 10s MKII. I saved some money and have been extremely happy with the RSL for music. I highly recommend it and personally think it would be nearly impossible to beat for $500.

Speedwoofer 10S MKII

Features: 400 watts RMS / 1020 watts peak Cast-frame 10” woofer w/ improved thermal capacity LFE mode offers deeper extension (22Hz!) Music mode matches original 10S w/ improved dynamics Rear-vented Compression Guide™ tuning Wireless receiver built in. Option to add transmitter during checkout*...

rslspeakers.com

RSL Speedwoofer 10S MKII Review: Improved Performance, Great Value!

The popular RSL Speedwoofer 10S received a redesign to take advantage of modern innovations in audio technology. The RSL Speedwoofer 10S MKII has been completely redesigned. To find out how, read on.

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[vsch]

I guess, either of the two subwoofers should be fine. As @dominikz and @Mort suggested, I'd also go for the SVS as it is powerful enough to keep up with the 8030c and extends lower (although most music doesn't require extension <30Hz).

What is crucial, though, is proper integration and room-correction. No matter how accurate the sub is, its frequency response will be messed up by the room and exhibit massive peaks and dips due to resonances and cancellations. In my experience, proper integration and room-correction requires measurements and a device that can act as an active crossover, delay the speakers (or sub) to time-/phase-align them, and remove the peaks below ~500 Hz. You can implement that purely software-based with a multichannel audio interface or, more conveniently, with a device like a miniDSP, a Wiim (not sure how strong their DSP is), or e.g. a Denon AVR with pre-outs that supports Audyssey or the much better A1 Acoustix from @OCA .

 

[tineared]

I haven't heard either of those two subs, but I have 2 SVS SB3000 subs and the phone app is not to be under-rated
It is very convenient for finetuning your sub for your situation and using as a volume control on the fly

 

[Miguelón]

I added the Kali to my genelec 8030c.
Rationalize, symmetrical firing, so no contact sound, keeping neighbors happy.
Sound is great, did not expect such an improvement, the genelecs are great already.

I finally got the Kali. As your setup did, mine improved a lot!

Is very powerful, and the floor doesn't vibrate (some elements of the window resonates at 40 Hz)

My unit "rumble" a little bit when not playing, I don't know if is normal. Is not the same hiss as the Genelecs, more like a hollow sound of a wind blowing.

Is volume dependent, your unit emit the same hiss-rumble noise?

 

[Miguelón]

I haven't heard either of those two subs, but I have 2 SVS SB3000 subs and the phone app is not to be under-rated
It is very convenient for finetuning your sub for your situation and using as a volume control on the fly

I finally decided to buy the Kali, as my WiiM has a 10 band PEQ. The SVS 3000 micro was also an alternative in consideration but goes over my budget.

 

[RobL]

I finally got the Kali. As your setup did, mine improved a lot!

Is very powerful, and the floor doesn't vibrate (some elements of the window resonates at 40 Hz)

My unit "rumble" a little bit when not playing, I don't know if is normal. Is not the same hiss as the Genelecs, more like a hollow sound of a wind blowing.

Is volume dependent, your unit emit the same hiss-rumble noise?

You might want to peruse this thread:

Noisy Kali Audio WS-6.2 - is my unit broken?

Hello everyone! TLDR: I'm looking for Kali Audio WS-6.2 owners to help me find out if my unit is abnormally noisy. I just got a Kali Audio WS-6.2 subwoofer based on Erin's Audio Corner measurements and recommendations here on ASR. I intend to use it to get a better bass extension out of my...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Miguelón]

You might want to peruse this thread:

Noisy Kali Audio WS-6.2 - is my unit broken?

Hello everyone! TLDR: I'm looking for Kali Audio WS-6.2 owners to help me find out if my unit is abnormally noisy. I just got a Kali Audio WS-6.2 subwoofer based on Erin's Audio Corner measurements and recommendations here on ASR. I intend to use it to get a better bass extension out of my...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thanks! I can see the problem is present in many units.

In the YouTube video at the thread I could listen exactly the same strange noise that my sub do.

But I prefer keeping It, I should be really close to listen the noise and nothing guarantee a second unit to be silent.

 

[pehu63]

I finally got the Kali. As your setup did, mine improved a lot!

Is very powerful, and the floor doesn't vibrate (some elements of the window resonates at 40 Hz)

My unit "rumble" a little bit when not playing, I don't know if is normal. Is not the same hiss as the Genelecs, more like a hollow sound of a wind blowing.

Is volume dependent, your unit emit the same hiss-rumble noise?

I do not hear anything wrong so far. When pausing, silent. After 10 minutes, my home automation switches the kali off. When streaming starts, HA switches on the kali, the kali takes up to 5 seconds to wake up. With my phone, I can toggle the footswitch (esp32), sound changes, deep bass gone, bit higher bass is stronger. Soon, I will do some more REW measurements, with footswitch on/off. For now, I am totally happy with genelec/kali. But first, I will add the PCM5102 to my Arylic pro DIY streamer. Arylic stuff is burnt down to the ground on this forum, but sound is just great.

Hmm, and I tend to listen to the music, background noise just means you're not dead yet......

 

[Miguelón]

I do not hear anything wrong so far. When pausing, silent. After 10 minutes, my home automation switches the kali off. When streaming starts, HA switches on the kali, the kali takes up to 5 seconds to wake up. With my phone, I can toggle the footswitch (esp32), sound changes, deep bass gone, bit higher bass is stronger. Soon, I will do some more REW measurements, with footswitch on/off. For now, I am totally happy with genelec/kali. But first, I will add the PCM5102 to my Arylic pro DIY streamer. Arylic stuff is burnt down to the ground on this forum, but sound is just great.

Hmm, and I tend to listen to the music, background noise just means you're not dead yet......

I'm curious about if you're using LFE input or the inbuilt 80 Hz crossover.

Self noise in my unit is inexistent in 80 Hz, moderate in LFE and really audible in "external".

I changed the output of my WiiM to send whole spectrum to the sub, and selected "80 Hz" in the Kali.

It can be psychologic, but I have the impression that the inbuilt crossover sounds way more clean: it seems the problem is when bypassing the Kali crossover.

I will leave It like this, It really sounds better. The G Threes have no problem with 80 Hz frequency (or the 8030C, are same acoustically).

 

[pehu63]

Name of the forum says "Audio SCIENCE review". At the risk of irritating you, the following ;-)
It is difficult to do a double-blind-test yourself. I saw you state somewhere that the 8030C sounds different from G3.
To me, this is highly unlikely. Costly (for a small company) to add a product.... They just have a jumper on that PCB.
Same speakers chassis, same PCB, same enclosure. Different market, audio aficionados....

What my nose is telling here is the following. My 8030C is sensitive to proper earthing when NOT using XLR.
Do you have earthing issues? Trusting that you have the kali switches correctly set.
The electronics guy in me says this will be 50 or 60hz hum, while rectifier hum is 100 or 120hz.
Well, I must use the KALI for the high-pass filter, feeding XLR into the genelecs. No other option.

On the science part, I read reviews here that put an amp or DAC in "RED" category when SINAD is worse than 90db.
To me, this is completely insane, yet I have no (double-blind-test) proof for this.
I guess the audio industry would rather sell US$ 1000 DAC's, instead of 100 US$. Same for amplifiers.

For another reason, I suspect that audio aficionados are not really interested in double-blind-testing results.
This might prove that a one-dollar DAC (pcm5102) *sounds* exactly as good as the 120db models tested here.
This would cancel all bragging rights. "Look at my ultra-high-end amp, look at my ultra-high-end DAC".
"Look at me!" Nothing is more sad than the death of an illusion.

Yet, very grateful for this site, introduced me into spinorama, found the link to Toole's video's.
For above reasons, I would guess that Harman would never sponsor that expensive research anymore.
How to leverage that into $$$$? Audio industry has analogue to fog.....

Based on the reviews here, I bought the JBL 305. Real good!
Until the interior designer in my house (me) wanted something better looking.
Yes, the looks and the size made me go the Genelec 8030c, assuming it would sound a bit better.
Big mistake! After exposure to the genelec, the JBL 305 is just a joke to me. But quite good for the price.

 

[Miguelón]

Name of the forum says "Audio SCIENCE review". At the risk of irritating you, the following ;-)
It is difficult to do a double-blind-test yourself. I saw you state somewhere that the 8030C sounds different from G3.
To me, this is highly unlikely. Costly (for a small company) to add a product.... They just have a jumper on that PCB.
Same speakers chassis, same PCB, same enclosure. Different market, audio aficionados....

What my nose is telling here is the following. My 8030C is sensitive to proper earthing when NOT using XLR.
Do you have earthing issues? Trusting that you have the kali switches correctly set.
The electronics guy in me says this will be 50 or 60hz hum, while rectifier hum is 100 or 120hz.
Well, I must use the KALI for the high-pass filter, feeding XLR into the genelecs. No other option.

On the science part, I read reviews here that put an amp or DAC in "RED" category when SINAD is worse than 90db.
To me, this is completely insane, yet I have no (double-blind-test) proof for this.
I guess the audio industry would rather sell US$ 1000 DAC's, instead of 100 US$. Same for amplifiers.

For another reason, I suspect that audio aficionados are not really interested in double-blind-testing results.
This might prove that a one-dollar DAC (pcm5102) *sounds* exactly as good as the 120db models tested here.
This would cancel all bragging rights. "Look at my ultra-high-end amp, look at my ultra-high-end DAC".
"Look at me!" Nothing is more sad than the death of an illusion.

Yet, very grateful for this site, introduced me into spinorama, found the link to Toole's video's.
For above reasons, I would guess that Harman would never sponsor that expensive research anymore.
How to leverage that into $$$$? Audio industry has analogue to fog.....

Based on the reviews here, I bought the JBL 305. Real good!
Until the interior designer in my house (me) wanted something better looking.
Yes, the looks and the size made me go the Genelec 8030c, assuming it would sound a bit better.
Big mistake! After exposure to the genelec, the JBL 305 is just a joke to me. But quite good for the price.

I don't get all your points...

Yes, I verified the noise of the Kali WS 6.2 doesn't come from ground loops: I disconnect all of the other devices.

And as I mentioned, is only present in LFE and External modes, not in the circuit where the sub crossovers the signal. There is a dedicated thread to this issue here, you can write your experience.

My DAC is transparent, measured also in ASR by Amir.

With respect to blind tests, I don't know where is needed: self generated noise doesn't need blind, perhaps is with respect to my affirmation in which the Kali crossover path sounds better than the LFE path with the WiiM crossover.

Since the LFE path high noise (45 dB @ 1m) is audible, It shows that the unit doesn't work properly in this circuit, so is plausible a poorer sound.

With no need to buy additional components, I will keep using the 80 Hz filter of the Kali, even if I didn't performed blind. I have nothing to lose...

Noisy Kali Audio WS-6.2 - is my unit broken?

Hello everyone! TLDR: I'm looking for Kali Audio WS-6.2 owners to help me find out if my unit is abnormally noisy. I just got a Kali Audio WS-6.2 subwoofer based on Erin's Audio Corner measurements and recommendations here on ASR. I intend to use it to get a better bass extension out of my...

www.audiosciencereview.com