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Screen wall speaker compromise options (toe in, enclosure volume, etc)

sumitagarwal

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Long time reader, first time caller. Thought I'd take my questions here especially given the recent in-wall speaker activity!

For my home theater I'm using the existing wall between my theater and my pantry and my tool closet as a baffle wall.

In particular I've been driving myself crazy on whether to use sealed speakers or infinite baffle speakers, and whether to try to achieve some type of LR toe-in or forgo that for a flatter smoother baffle wall and potentially "better" speakers.

I think the attached images illustrate the options I've identified so far, but I'm open to all insights and speaker suggestions!

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Screen Shot 2022-09-23 at 10.30.37 AM.png


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Screen Shot 2022-09-23 at 10.42.11 AM.png


Screen Shot 2022-09-23 at 12.39.55 PM.png
 
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sumitagarwal

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Oh, and I'm going to apologize up-front for being a dumb guitar guy who started off using the term "open back" instead of "infinite baffle"! =P
 

Dal1as

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Those doors to the pantry and tool closet are in unfortunate places.

What does the back of the room look like?

Tep of setup? 5.1.4 etc.

What is the wall to the right? Folding doors?

In walls are preferable in that situation though. The Monolith thx 365s or such have create a large sweet spot and have good dispersion so no toe in would be needed with the narrow soundstage being used.

Assuming you will be using an AT screen and 3 identical speakers?

Budget?
 
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sumitagarwal

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Those doors to the pantry and tool closet are in unfortunate places.

What does the back of the room look like?

Tep of setup? 5.1.4 etc.

What is the wall to the right? Folding doors?

In walls are preferable in that situation though. The Monolith thx 365s or such have create a large sweet spot and have good dispersion so no toe in would be needed with the narrow soundstage being used.

Assuming you will be using an AT screen and 3 identical speakers?

Budget?

Are you saying those doors are in an unfortunate location because you would recommend putting the speakers there, or for some other reason? For a traditional theater effect I was planning to keep the LCR's behind the AT screen. Viewing angle is something like 47-50 degrees. Behind that I will have a second row on a riser.

3/4 of the way back there is a half height half width wall. Beyond that is another 10 feet or so that is being used as space for musical instruments.

For not I will set it up 7.2, since Atmos is extremely rare in the content my wife and I watch and Atmos doesn't have wide support in gaming yet (also a relatively rare use of our last theater). My receiver supports 7.2.4 channels and so I'll add 4 in-ceiling heights once it seems worth it.

Yes, those are folding doors on the right for closets. The air space in there is continuous with the air space for the tool closet behind the screen.

My approach to budget is simply to get something reasonably proportional to what I'm spending. If I spend a lot more then I should get a lot more, and there should be few or zero negatives compared to cheaper options. I think the JBL Synthesis and high-tier Monitor Audio in-walls I've earmarked give a general sense of the range that's caught my eye. I guess those look around $3K for LCR, but happy to spend more or less if the rationale is there.

For the speakers I've earmarked they all make an attempt to control dispersion. The MA do that with pivoting MF and LF for the left and right, and with a ribbon for the center, while the JBL's have relatively narrow waveguides and asymmetrical waveguides for the left and right.
 

Recluse-Animator

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Is the screen perforated? Is it mounted on the wall or ceiling? Can it be moved further away from the wall?
 

Recluse-Animator

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The reason for asking was that if you could fit floor standing or bookshelf speakers mounted on the wall between the wall and screen.
 
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sumitagarwal

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The reason for asking was that if you could fit floor standing or bookshelf speakers mounted on the wall between the wall and screen.
It's possible, but I feel I've read extensive material and research stating that a baffle wall is far preferable. QSC, Dolby, etc all come out hard in favor of baffle walls, and baffle installation is common in recording studios too (toed in in that case).

I originally looked at simply making the wall a false wall and placing floor standing speakers in the pantry and tool closet spaces, with rearrangements and acoustic treatment of course.
 

Recluse-Animator

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It's possible, but I feel I've read extensive material and research stating that a baffle wall is far preferable. QSC, Dolby, etc all come out hard in favor of baffle walls, and baffle installation is common in recording studios too (toed in in that case).

I originally looked at simply making the wall a false wall and placing floor standing speakers in the pantry and tool closet spaces, with rearrangements and acoustic treatment of course.
I think you are confusing soffit mounting with baffle wall.
Studios use soffit mounted speakers.

https://support.genelec.com/hc/en-u...itors-and-how-should-the-wall-be-constructed-
 
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sumitagarwal

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I think you are confusing soffit mounting with baffle wall.
Studios use soffit mounted speakers.

https://support.genelec.com/hc/en-u...itors-and-how-should-the-wall-be-constructed-
Erin did a in-wall speaker shootout:

I guess I'm unclear on what the real difference is between soffit mounting and baffle wall. Feels like different terms for the same thing?

Yes, I saw Erin's video and was concerned about the poor performance of the sealed models. Unfortunately he didn't test Monitor Audio. His reviews are part of what is making me consider conventional speakers mounted in the wall. I guess we would call that soffit mounting behind the screen? I'm wondering if I could cut into the wall at an angle so the speakers could be toed in even if the wall itself is not
 

Recluse-Animator

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If you have room for tower speakers then I would recommend getting them.
Rear ported might be an issue so safer to go with front or bottom ported.
If you could place some insulation as bass traps behind and between the speakers then you are creating a baffle wall.
 

Recluse-Animator

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Soffit mounting and baffle wall are not the same thing.
Read the Genelec link.

Safest bet for in-walls would be Kef.
Monitor Audio speakers measure all over the place in sense that a cheaper model can measure better than a more expensive one.
 
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sumitagarwal

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Thanks! I should note that I also plan on 2-3 subwoofers in the theater as well, which I'm hoping will reduce the gap compared to floor standers.

I have 4 Goldenear Triton 2's, and if I were to do the floor standing route I think I would just open up that wall and stick 3 of them there.
 

Recluse-Animator

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By looking at the floor plan it seems that this is a open space.
To get good bass down to 20hz or below would need lots off sub power.
What's your sub budget?
 
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sumitagarwal

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By looking at the floor plan it seems that this is a open space.
To get good bass down to 20hz or below would need lots off sub power.
What's your sub budget?
For now I'm just handling the front wall speakers while I get the wall finished for the screen, etc. Given the current stock market I'm going to take my time with the rest of the theater, but long term budget is no issue.
 

Recluse-Animator

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For now I'm just handling the front wall speakers while I get the wall finished for the screen, etc. Given the current stock market I'm going to take my time with the rest of the theater, but long term budget is no issue.
I thought this was already a finished house.
Is the tool shed open to some other space to the right outside the picture?
 
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sumitagarwal

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I thought this was already a finished house.
Is the tool shed open to some other space to the right outside the picture?
It is a finished house, but the tool closet door was previously in the middle of the screen space. I had the door shifted to the right and am having the contractor install the speakers while wood paneling the wall and installing the screen.

The tool closet is not open to other space.
 
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sumitagarwal

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I'm still trying to understand the difference between a soffit install and a baffle wall. So far as I can tell the terms are generally used depending on whether it's a new wall or opening space in an existing wall, but the overall goals and build are similar
 
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