Scientific reasons why cables matter for audio

[IngMishael]

We can just post the video here, you know

Quick summary: dude got some expensive Iconoclast cables, mumbles a bit about “science” then concludes that that why they sound better.

On one hand, he argued about measurable differences, while in the next minutes claiming things are not. He’s basically listing a bunch of supposed engineering advantages of the cables, and then making up some allegedly audible differences from it. It’s very clear he doesn’t understand the science, nor simple logical reasoning. The whole video is one massive non sequitur.

And incidentally:

Belden ICONOCLAST XLR Cable Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the ICONOCLAST XLR by Belden (manufactured by Blue Jeans Cable). Tested sample costs US $785 for 6 foot length: I ordered a pair of XLR and RCA cables from the company. They nicely intercepted my order and asked if intended to review them. When I...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Ah yes "Passion for Sound"

Always peddling BS

 

[egellings]

How about this for power cables? Sell an audiophile grade extension cord. The more of those you connect in series with the equipment power cord, the better the sound gets.

 

[Eric Larson]

Oh, copper wire is generally the best choice.

Yes for power. Not so much for information.

I once had a experience with glass fiber.

Back when I was just out of college looking for a real job I had an interview at Corning. They had a pilot machine about the size of a large desk. The machine was really complicated looking, very highly instrumented, and had a reel on one side that was winding up a fine glass fiber.

They started describing the mechanics of what they were doing with the fiber and asking me questions about the process to check my ability to understand the technology.

Eventually I went home, and later got a rejection letter. No big deal at the time, I found a good job elsewhere.

A few years later when I started hearing about glass fiber and lasers for high speed data transmission I realized what I had seen was the first commercial process for production of fiber optic data cable.

Now there are more than 3 billion miles of this stuff winding around the planet. And I had missed out on getting in on the ground floor of one of the most important inventions of the 20th century.

Shucks.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

Yes for power. Not so much for information.

Awesome story!!! Could have been an amazing gig; but life's path is full of branches that (almost) always seem to work out.

But I always thought that information is power!

More to the point, it is not clear to me (optical glass is clear, pun intended! ) that fiber optic cable is a viable alternative for speaker cable, even if it was nicely braided by an old man sitting in his rocking chair while listening to music. Fiber optics may be more than capable of carrying the all of audio information that is being sent to the speaker; but I'm afraid a dumb coat hanger is far superior for this scenario... or even the 50' of spooled 24 gauge wire.

 

[Ruediger]

I am new to this forum and I apologize in advance in case I did something wrong or violate any etiquette for newbies. I am a somewhat older audio buff with, among other things, some 14 years of track record (incl. on the moderating team) in a large German hifi-forum (but I'm no longer active there for a while now).

The reason for me regeistering just now is that a new "scientific reasons" video is live on the same channel this thread opened with. Among the comments there is one from a purportedly highly placed person, possibly making it appear as an endorsed statement. Among other things, the comment complains about "the naysayers and amir junkies usually appear like flies at a summer cook out," and goes on for a while in a similar fashion.

Hi fellow german,

there will be a lot of people out there not too pleased with the science put forward on this site. It messes with their money-making off people who fall for their unicorn-rainbow-stories.

It's a process or maybe it can be seen as a compliment.

 

[arqwfxdv]

So ... Meesa back.

Thanks for all the replies.

I have just glanced at the video this morning. Among other things, Lachlan approved of the comment that I referred to here in my initial post (with the flies part now edited out), and that, among other things, still declares "naysayers" to be people who "spew attacks on the character, ethics and motivation" of others, who, by nature, "belittle that which they can't have or can't afford," and who "just have no class in life and ignorance is bliss." Coming, by the way, from someone who gives a clear name and purports to be "Sales Director, Iconoclast Cables." Can't go wrong with that kind of marketing. Ironically and unironically, by the way.

I asked Lachlan why he approved of that post. Among the things in his answer was: "You've taken one incomplete set of measurements by somebody not qualified and not researched sufficiently to do so and are now wielding it as though it's the absolute truth. You do so in a respectful tone which I do appreciate, but your inability to consider and explore another's perspective undermines that sense of respect." It's always a good idea to turn what someone else has said (in this case me) on the head, and to accuse others (in this case me) of what that person himself is doing as a matter of principle. This pre-emptive "offense is the best defense" strategy works well in ... eh ... politics?

That is a direct personal insult against me and against Amir, who, according to him, is "somebody not qualified." I asked for measurements (and of course didn't get any and never will), only to be told by the channel owner that I didn't research the topic properly (at least I did a reasonable amout of research beyond the Iconoclast echo chamber), etc. etc. etc..

I always liked that channel. It was one of several that helped guide me back into headphones. Oh, well ...

 

[voodooless]

So ... Meesa back.

Thanks for all the replies.

I have just glanced at the video this morning. Among other things, Lachlan approved of the comment that I referred to here in my initial post (with the flies part now edited out), and that, among other things, still declares "naysayers" to be people who "spew attacks on the character, ethics and motivation" of others, who, by nature, "belittle that which they can't have or can't afford," and who "just have no class in life and ignorance is bliss." Coming, by the way, from someone who gives a clear name and purports to be "Sales Director, Iconoclast Cables." Can't go wrong with that kind of marketing. Ironically and unironically, by the way.

I asked Lachlan why he approved of that post. Among the things in his answer was: "You've taken one incomplete set of measurements by somebody not qualified and not researched sufficiently to do so and are now wielding it as though it's the absolute truth. You do so in a respectful tone which I do appreciate, but your inability to consider and explore another's perspective undermines that sense of respect." It's always a good idea to turn what someone else has said (in this case me) on the head, and to accuse others (in this case me) of what that person himself is doing as a matter of principle. This pre-emptive "offense is the best defense" strategy works well in ... eh ... politics?

That is a direct personal insult against me and against Amir, who, according to him, is "somebody not qualified." I asked for measurements (and of course didn't get any and never will), only to be told by the channel owner that I didn't research the topic properly (at least I did a reasonable amout of research beyond the Iconoclast echo chamber), etc. etc. etc..

I always liked that channel. It was one of several that helped guide me back into headphones. Oh, well ...

So many words… zero evidence of anything at all The only thing they have it character attacks. Anything else would mean they would have to expose themselves to their own ignorance.

 

[Ruediger]

"Sales Director, Iconoclast Cables."

Well, what shall he say... it's his job.

The companies are free to use YT for their marketing/sales stories. Letting it be and not messing up the comments would have been professional. Not every content of that kind gets backfire with facts.

 

[Mart68]

Watched a bit of the video, oh dear. He'd have been better off spending the thousands of dollars those cables cost on better speakers.

Not unusual for 'cable merchants' to have mediocre speakers. I do wonder if that's why they're always looking for magical improvements elsewhere?

 

[Cote Dazur]

I asked Lachlan why he approved of that post

I do not know this person and I do not need to.
I know cables do not make any difference to what we hear.
But I also know that when people say that they hear a difference, it might be true. Some are dishonest and pretend to for different reasons, but not all.
30 years ago I could hear difference in sound when switching cables and if some one would have come to me saying there is no difference, my conclusion was that they did not hear properly, were lacking the High End equipment to be able to hear the changes or other similar reason.
One day, as suggested by someone, I made the switch without knowing what was playing and discovered that there is no difference, which make sense in light of the absence in changes when measuring the cables.
I think it is wrong to always assume people saying cable matters are not being honest, they might just be misinformed.
Sighted bias need to be understood by both parties when discussing perceived difference in audio.

 

[Mart68]

I think it is wrong to always assume people saying cable matters are not being honest,

Most of the time they are being honest but most of the time they're simply mistaken due to how they made the comparison. Probably most of us in the past have bought cables hoping for an upgrade in sound quality, and because the industry as a whole pushes the line that 'everything matters.'

I recall one time advising someone on a forum not to spend money upgrading his speaker cables as it was pointless. That was described as 'The most stupid thing I ever read on a hi-fi forum.' It's hard to comprehend sometimes, but cable differences are absolutely taken for granted amongst a large proportion of enthusiasts.

Anyone in the industry or connected with it, that can be a different matter. Many of them are fully aware of the physics involved and of the blind testing that's been done; but - there's money to be made.

 

[mhardy6647]

If one cable can improves sound so much, two should improve it by double.

3 dB, right?

 

[mhardy6647]

How about this for power cables? Sell an audiophile grade extension cord. The more of those you connect in series with the equipment power cord, the better the sound gets.

You raise an excellent point. Why hasn't biwiring for power delivery caught on? After all, what is AC mains power but a robust 60 Hz (or 50 Hz, depending on one's location) analog audio signal?

Opportunity awaits the truly innovative entrepreneur.

 

[MatrixS2000]

Why hasn't biwiring for power delivery caught on?

Oh god, please, please don’t encourage them!

 

[mhardy6647]

I am also now thinking about paralleling AC power cords of differing properties (L, C, and R, of course... this is science!) to improve performance. Yes -- bypassing power cords (a la bypassing capacitors).

Another opportunity for power delivery innovation: reactive power cords, to add warmth and color to audio reproduction. I picture an AC power plug with two wires (insulated, of course -- we'll be looking for UL and CE certification!). The plug is inserted into an outlet behind the listener, on the wall opposite the "front" wall of the listening chamber. One wire runs around the perimeter of the room along one side wall; the other runs along the opposite side wall. They meet again at the AC input socket on the fortunate audio component. Magic will happen.

Still thinking about what to do with the ground wire for a three-wire plug... We call this R&D.

 

[danadam]

The reason for me regeistering just now is that a new "scientific reasons" video is live on the same channel this thread opened with. Among the comments there is one from a purportedly highly placed person, possibly making it appear as an endorsed statement. Among other things, the comment complains about "the naysayers and amir junkies usually appear like flies at a summer cook out," and goes on for a while in a similar fashion.

Your username is more interesting than the video. Does "arqwfxdv" mean anything or are those just random letters?

 

[WeekendWarrior]

Naim Audio used to specify their amplifiers required specific speaker cables and a specific minimum length because their amplifier output stage design used the physical speaker wire as an electrical component to maintain stability.

Don't think this is the case anymore, but was certainly a thing when I had Naim equipment.

 

[Cote Dazur]

but was certainly a thing when I had Naim equipment.

Even 30 years ago, I think it was a good idea to take what ever Naim Audio was claiming with a huge grain of salt.
Not that the offering had no value, but the marketing surrounding the offering was way up there in the fantasy land.

 

[fpitas]

3 dB, right?

Depends on whether woo is a power, or a voltage/current. Someone should sell a woo-factor meter to nail this down!

 

[fpitas]

We call this R&D

In this case, ridiculous and demented? Yet I bet you could sell some...