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Science of healthy eating

bigx5murf

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Creatine does help build muscle mass. That’s a good thing. There’s also plenty of creatine in red meat. As you may have noticed, I eat a lot of red meat.

Never said it does, but it does cause water retention, which does make muscles noticeably larger. I said it has a measurable effect on energy metabolism, which has been verified by many studies. Yes it is present in red meat and bone marrow.

Anyway, my point was studying diets is difficult. Aside from needing lots of participants, in both study and control groups, and long term observation. You can't really guarantee participants are sticking to particular diets, you can't measure precisely how much of everything they're eating.

Studying supplements is much easier. You give the study group a specific amount, and the control group a placebo. It's a lot more similar to drug studies.
 

Sal1950

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IMHO, the best diet is a very aggressive exercise routine mixing weights and cardio training.
Then if your burning more calories than you take in, all's good.
 

bigx5murf

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IMHO, the best diet is a very aggressive exercise routine mixing weights and cardio training.
Then if your burning more calories than you take in, all's good.

This works very well while you're trying to lose weight. But at some point if you start chasing lower body fat percentages. You start having energy issues if you don't get your macros right.
 

Sal1950

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This works very well while you're trying to lose weight. But at some point if you start chasing lower body fat percentages. You start having energy issues if you don't get your macros right.
Yep, been there, done that. Got obsessive over things.
Burned out a few joints in the process also. LOL
 

bigx5murf

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Yep, been there, done that. Got obsessive over things.
Burned out a few joints in the process also. LOL

That's why I find the fitbit app's food tracking godsend after they added macros. Unfortunately their products are overpriced and lacking in build quality. Competitors have their hardware beat. But their software is ahead.
 

dallasjustice

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Yep
AIP .604 according to the calculator not good I take it.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5216403/
Here is another paper. It applies mainly to children but you can see the citations show that a trig/HDL greater than 3 highly correlates with insulin resistance. Your ratio is above that level.

It is believed that the trig/HDL ratio is so useful because it so tightly predicts insulin resistance and metabolic disorder. The common tests that unsophisticated primary care doctors use to discover diabetes is usually limited to a fasting glucose. This is not at all an accurate assessment of your metabolic state. You cannot know from a fasting glucose whether you are hyperinsulinemic or insulin resistant. There are a couple of other tests which are much more accurate and you may want to ask your doctor to have one of them done.

The Kraft test is probably the most accurate method of assessing your insulin resistance.
https://www.headsuphealth.com/blog/...sting-part-7-the-kraft-test-hyperinsulinemia/

A more common test is the HOMA-IR.
https://www.headsuphealth.com/blog/self-tracking/low-carb-lab-testing-part-3-homa-ir/

Why does this matter so much? It is pretty clear now that heart disease is primarily caused by metabolic disregulation. If this is a new topic for you, I recommend you watch an Ivor Cummins presentation on YouTube. He’s a top chemical engineer from Ireland and now works full time for an Irish nonprofit which is tasked with hearth health education and the value of the CAC test.

Watch this interview. Ivor quickly walks through the science behind how insulin resistance causes heart disease. Everything he says is backed up with real science. These aren’t theories or guesses. His conclusions are pretty well grounded in research. You can see several more presentations he’s done on YouTube. He’s also written a book which is full of citations.

@Sal1950 If you need help with diet, I have done a lot of n=1 experiments on myself over the last 8 years. I’m also familiar with the basic science behind different time restricted feeding strategies. IMO, the easier way to get your numbers turned around without doing a ton of reading or research on different diets and macro ratios would be to adopt a 10/14 or a 8/16 eating window. IOW, you maintain your current caloric intake. You can also maintain you current diet macro composition. The only restriction is that you have to eat inside a 10 hour window for starters. When you get comfortable with that, you could try reducing it down to an 8 hour window. You can pick whatever time frame you want. But you must finish your last meal at least two hours before bedtime. Ideally, you want to adopt something like begin eating at breakfast and finish your last meal around 2pm or so. There have been lots of studies on this eating strategy. It has been found to improve insulin resistance even when the diet composition was poor (lots of carbs). It may be difficult at first, but you will get comfortable with it pretty fast. If you do this for 30 days without a day off you will do much better. Do another blood draw at the end, I’d be shocked if your numbers didn’t improve. I bet you’d also lose a little weight and feel much better.
 
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WoodyLuvr

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Very interesting reading, thank you... unfortunately, it all remains highly speculative, the true cause(s) of disease in humans. E.g. gum health still remains one of the best determinations/status checks of heart health and we have known that for decades and people still have deplorable dental hygiene and give not a second thought to periodontal diseases! But in our defense medicine is so uncertain... truly finicky and fickle... very wishy washy. Unfortunately, that is how medicine is, LOL! Though it does appear we are rapidly approaching a medical technological horizon (both in knowledge & practice) at which point we will be able to cure/prevent a high percentage of disease, if not all.
 
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Oukkidoukki

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This is popular now and seems to bring results. If I understand right it includes heavy meat consumption. Is this sustainable? 6 billion of us.....Can some part of meat be replaced with plant based product?

Lets say if I put lot of salad, tomato, cucumber, some meat and only two very small potato on the plate, no salt, no sugar, no gravy, no salad dressing, no mayo.......only litle bit olive oil, or greek yogurt.......is this pretty ok? Or does 2 potatoes fuck things up .
 

Sal1950

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The only restriction is that you have to eat inside a 10 hour window for starters. When you get comfortable with that, you could try reducing it down to an 8 hour window. You can pick whatever time frame you want. But you must finish your last meal at least two hours before bedtime. Ideally, you want to adopt something like begin eating at breakfast and finish your last meal around 2pm or so.
Interesting, and easy if I understand this right. Whatever your personal time schedule, you need to eat all meals inside a 10 or even 8 hour window, the last 2 hours before bed? I kind of follow that now, in a attempt to control caloric intake I usually eat just 1 meal a day, that being dinner around 6-7 PM.
 

WoodyLuvr

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Nice.

"In the meantime, I, like most of my colleagues will continue to observe that those most successful at long-term weight loss have common habits of getting more active, eating less fatty and processed foods, controlling their portion sizes, enlisting the support of friends or a health professional, and are mindful of the food they put in their body. Of course, none of that advice meets any of the criteria for a best-selling diet book. Although I do have the the catchy title nailed: ‘Eat less junk and move your trunk’ "

As I said before:
Though I agree and concur with many things you said in your first post (most especially about the need for exercise) wouldn't you have to agree that portion size; number of meals; eating-in-moderation; and making healthier food choices is probably a bigger factor of concern to one's health than worrying about and or avoiding that single banana one may have their eye on... or anything on that list of yours?

Humans simply tend to overeat, gluttonously so, and lead sedentary lives... you are actually encouraging people to go ahead and eat lots of animal! Respectfully, that is horrible health/dietary advice.
Keeping it grossly simple, not too limiting, and not too strict is probably a far more successful method of gaining better health/living when it comes to us humans! No disrespect but scaring people away from bananas and apples rather than overly processed/packaged foods tends to trigger an immediate face palm for me.
 
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hvbias

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I've made it through most of the articles referenced in this meta-analysis, and overall this is quite a poorly written article with significant biases.

The authors have formed a strong conclusion and then very selectively chosen topics that suit their agenda. Additionally there are some downright misleading methods of presenting information. I am not a PCP, but I am a qualified expert in cancer and the way they present this is deceptional

It has been suggested that inverse causation explains the inverse association between mortality and LDL-C; for example, that cancer and infections lower LDL-C. A more likely explanation is that CVD may be caused by infections and that LDL directly inactivates almost all types of microorganisms and their toxic products [12 Ravnskov U. High cholesterol may protect against infections and atherosclerosis. QJM. 2003;96:927–934.[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar],22 Ravnskov U, McCully KS. Vulnerable plaque formation from obstruction of vasa vasorum by homocysteinylated and oxidized lipoprotein aggregates complexed with microbial remnants and LDL autoantibodies. Ann Clin Lab Sci. 2009;39:3–16.[PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar],23 Ravnskov U, McCully KS. Infections may be causal in the pathogenesis of atherosclerosis. Am J Med Sci. 2012;344:391–394.[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]]. Consistent with that finding is the observation that healthy individuals with low LDL-C have a significantly increased risk of both infectious diseases [23 Ravnskov U, McCully KS. Infections may be causal in the pathogenesis of atherosclerosis. Am J Med Sci. 2012;344:391–394.[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]] and cancer [24 Ravnskov U, Rosch PJ, McCully KS. The statin-low cholesterol-cancer conundrum. QJM. 2012;105:383–388.[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]]; the latter possibly because microorganisms have been linked to almost 20% of all cancer types

Of course we know that roughly that percentage of cancers is caused by microorganisms but this has absolutely NO correlation with LDL-C. It is so far fetched that it is not even worth mentioning that statistic because it has absolutely no tie in with LDL-C. But the authors present it as something that is relevant to their review.

What I will continue to eat- heavy on vegetables and fruit, dals, etc (etc including plant based foods heavy in protein), occasional meat, very low grains (more of a treat type food), regular exercise. I do enduro and trail mountain biking, some light downhill and like to stay in shape in the off season so I remain fast, of course as well for my overall health.
 
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dallasjustice

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I've made it through most of the articles referenced in this meta-analysis, and overall this is quite a poorly written article with significant biases.

The authors have formed a strong conclusion and then very selectively chosen topics that suit their agenda. Additionally there are some downright misleading methods of presenting information. I am not a PCP, but I am a qualified expert in cancer and the way they present this is deceptional

It has been suggested that inverse causation explains the inverse association between mortality and LDL-C; for example, that cancer and infections lower LDL-C. A more likely explanation is that CVD may be caused by infections and that LDL directly inactivates almost all types of microorganisms and their toxic products [12 Ravnskov U. High cholesterol may protect against infections and atherosclerosis. QJM. 2003;96:927–934.[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar],22 Ravnskov U, McCully KS. Vulnerable plaque formation from obstruction of vasa vasorum by homocysteinylated and oxidized lipoprotein aggregates complexed with microbial remnants and LDL autoantibodies. Ann Clin Lab Sci. 2009;39:3–16.[PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar],23 Ravnskov U, McCully KS. Infections may be causal in the pathogenesis of atherosclerosis. Am J Med Sci. 2012;344:391–394.[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]]. Consistent with that finding is the observation that healthy individuals with low LDL-C have a significantly increased risk of both infectious diseases [23 Ravnskov U, McCully KS. Infections may be causal in the pathogenesis of atherosclerosis. Am J Med Sci. 2012;344:391–394.[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]] and cancer [24 Ravnskov U, Rosch PJ, McCully KS. The statin-low cholesterol-cancer conundrum. QJM. 2012;105:383–388.[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]]; the latter possibly because microorganisms have been linked to almost 20% of all cancer types

Of course we know that roughly that percentage of cancers is caused by microorganisms but this has absolutely NO correlation with LDL-C. It is so far fetched that it is not even worth mentioning that statistic because it has absolutely no tie in with LDL-C. But the authors present it as something that is relevant to their review.

What I will continue to eat- heavy on vegetables and fruit, dals, etc (etc including plant based foods heavy in protein), occasional meat, very low grains (more of a treat type food), regular exercise. I do enduro and trail mountain biking, some light downhill and like to stay in shape in the off season so I remain fast, of course as well for my overall health.
The burden of proof is on the proponent of the hypothesis. In this case, the prevailing medical opinion from PCP Docs is that LDL is the bad guy and we need to get it down as low as possible because that’s what causes heart disease. That’s a hypothesis and is falsifiable. Correlational data, like the data cited in the paper, can never be used to affirmatively prove a hypothesis. However, correlational data can be a counterfactual to the proponet’s hypothesis. That’s all the authors are attempting to do. There’s plenty of data showing that folks with high LDL can be even healthier than those with low LDL. This is consistent in different populations depending on the diet. That’s a pretty big fly in ointment for the high LDL=CVD folks.

I don’t believe heart disease, like cancer, has one simple cause. And I think those who do hold this belief should be willing to examine their assumptions more carefully before prescribing statins. Statins are certainly overprescribed in the U.S. Statins do have negative side effects and don’t improve mortality rates in those who have never had heart disease. To me, that’s the only endpoint that matters.
 

Sal1950

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I don’t believe heart disease, like cancer, has one simple cause. And I think those who do hold this belief should be willing to examine their assumptions more carefully before prescribing statins. Statins are certainly overprescribed in the U.S. Statins do have negative side effects and don’t improve mortality rates in those who have never had heart disease. To me, that’s the only endpoint that matters.
The hard part for the layman is to chose a path you can sleep with at night.. The more we read today the more difference of opinions we encounter. :confused::mad:
 

Sal1950

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Just like being an audiophile, but with fewer real answers.
AMEN,, Maybe just "ignore them all and let God make the decisions" is the best path for mental health. LOL
 
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andreasmaaan

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AMEN,, Maybe just "ignore them all and let God make the desisions" is the best path for mental health. LOL

Hahaha. Who is God though? Some sort of McGowan/Guttenberg/Watts Frankenstein?
 

andreasmaaan

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An avuncular chap with ageing rocker hair and a textbook of incoherent theory to throw at you.

“Bless me Father, for I have double-blind tested.”
 
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