Science of healthy eating

[bigx5murf]

The author of this thread has highlighted the lack of scientific evidence offered up , I think there’s a bit here but please if you can post relevant documents in support of any anecdotal assertions I’d be most grateful..

Cheers me lovers

Scientific evidence isn't easy to come by in this field. You need large groups of participants, control groups, and long term studies.

Most of the research is probably focused on supplementation. Such as Creatine, or Beta Alanine. In this case www.labdoor.com is probably the closest thing to ASR for nutrition products.

 

[dallasjustice]

More science? Okay.

Other than the political objections, one of the many objections to eating a high animal fat diet is that it will likely cause LDL-C to rise (all other things being equal). This is true in my case. My LDL is very high. Most physicians would knee-jerk prescribe me a statin after seeing my LDL blood test result. Of course, statins have been found to be totally ineffective in people who haven’t had CVD. So, I generally ignore any doctor who routinely prescribes statins based solely on LDL without examining inflammatory markers, or the Trig/HDL ratio. The latter being the most powerful heart disease blood test.

Published 9/10/18: They found that elderly people with higher LDL live the longest. This serious international scientific meta analysis totally takes apart the LDL “Bad Cholesterol”/heart hypothesis. Statins as preventative don’t extend life one day. Low “Bad Cholesterol” LDL is associated with heart attacks and infection. My LDL-C is over 200. And my Triglyceride:HDL ratio is less than 1. You’ve already seen my calcium score.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17512433.2018.1519391

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2664115/

Most people who go on a high animinal fat/protein keto style diet see their HDL go up and Trigs go way down. This is exactly what you want if you want to avoid heart disease.

 

[dallasjustice]

IMO, supplements just make expensive urine. There’s very few supplements that are absorbed by the gut (or vitamin D through the skin) better than one would get from a proper diet. Of course, some folks need to take certain supplements for medical reasons (eg. Pregnant women need to take folic acid). Evolution has already well sorted how to extract the proper nutrients from ancestral foods. There’s really no substitute for Mother Nature.

 

[Sal1950]

This what humans were meant to eat. I just ate 2 pounds of prime rib. Yummy!
View attachment 18918

OMG, that's heaven on a plate!

 

[Sal1950]

Most people who go on a high animinal fat/protein keto style diet see their HDL go up and Trigs go way down. This is exactly what you want if you want to avoid heart disease.

Getting serious, that's a very interesting position. Dr just increased my statin intake after the last blood test below. Been fighting lipid issues for close to 40 years now. In 1990 my total cholesterol level was 330. Cardiovascular problems probably caused 80% of the deaths on both sides of my family, the vast majority of them before are 70.

CHOLESTEROL227 Highmg/dL<199 TRIGLYCERIDE201 Highmg/dL29-149 HDL50 mg/dL>40.0 LDL DIRECT148 Highmg/dL<100 GLUCOSE98 mg/dL70-105 UREA NITROGEN12 mg/dL7-20.6 CREATININE1.1 mg/dL0.7-1.3 SODIUM139 mEq/L136-145 POTASSIUM4.2 mEq/L3.5-5.2 CHLORIDE102 mEq/L98-109

 

[dallasjustice]

Getting serious, that's a very interesting position. Dr just increased my statin intake after the last blood test below. Been fighting lipid issues for close to 40 years now. In 1990 my total cholesterol level was 330. Cardiovascular problems probably caused 80% of the deaths on both sides of my family, the vast majority of them before are 70.

CHOLESTEROL227 Highmg/dL<199 TRIGLYCERIDE201 Highmg/dL29-149 HDL50 mg/dL>40.0 LDL DIRECT148 Highmg/dL<100 GLUCOSE98 mg/dL70-105 UREA NITROGEN12 mg/dL7-20.6 CREATININE1.1 mg/dL0.7-1.3 SODIUM139 mEq/L136-145 POTASSIUM4.2 mEq/L3.5-5.2 CHLORIDE102 mEq/L98-109

You want your trig/HDL to be less than 2:1. You can use this calculator to estimate your risk:

http://www.biomed.cas.cz/fgu/aip/calculator.php

Your trig is 201 and your HDL is 50? Am I reading that right?

 

[dallasjustice]

This is the science behind the trig/HDL ratio’s high predictive validly for CVD.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9355888/

 

[Sal1950]

Your trig is 201 and your HDL is 50? Am I reading that right?

Yep
AIP .604 according to the calculator not good I take it.

 

[dallasjustice]

Here’s another study:

Trig/HDL is highly predictive for CVD and LDL is useless.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18719750/

 

[dallasjustice]

Yep

Disclaimer: I’m not a physician. I just want you to have accurate and helpful information. I really believe you need to speak to someone who can help you get your HDL up and your trigs down.

IMO, a dietary intervention is needed. I believe you could turn your numbers around but you’d need to make some serious dietary changes to do so.

 

[RayDunzl]

Eat whatever I reasonably want and take no prescribed pharmaceuticals, don't specifically "exercise"...

Tested under "Welcome to Medicare" - I guess they want baselines...

No blood test for many many (many) years (because no need for doctors)

Triglyceride - 85 (<200)
Total Cholesterol - 132 (< 200)
HDL - 47 (> 40)
LDL - 68 (100 – 129 is "good")

PSA - 0.7 (<= 4.0)

My Fat insurance-company-assigned Doctor was like "Oooh... Ahhh...", so I guess he thought it was good.

Trying to lose a few belly pounds, though.

Ancestors tended to get old - paternal grandfather 95,
Mother 95, father 76 but had a heart valve defect and a pig valve for 21 years, drugs for that killed him in the end.,

 

[dallasjustice]

Thank you, what this thread has turned into was really not my intent.

I am almost tempted to start a thread in Fight Club for audiophile style dieting, what you believe goes. Also acceptable to discuss in that thread will be how $10k cables named after Norse gods do sound better than the junk that recording studio beggars use.

If this were in the fight club, I could post some more incendiary comments to the folks who think cow farts are ruining the atmosphere. Instead, I’ll stick to basic statistical information:

 

[hvbias]

Dallasjustice- I'm sorry there were a bunch of posts I hadn't caught up on from the end of page 2/3 (from when I last quoted someone), I shouldn't have made that reply before seeing many more posts on actual studies. That is why I deleted that post.

I'm sorry for the sarcasm.

 

[RayDunzl]

Oh yeah...

Fast food about twice a year - this year Popeye's Chicken, and... maybe that's all, since I don't remember.

Don't do restaurants (had 20 years of that working Telecom).

Cook at home mostly relatively unprocessed stuff (no frozen dinners or whatever else is "just heat and eat!")

Like bread though, and rice a lot. Grill stuff outside often.

---

As for "what's wrong with the world" I lay the blame pretty squarely on having 7+billion persons (Yes, I know I'm one of them)

 

[Wombat]

Bukowski's take:

 

[bigx5murf]

IMO, supplements just make expensive urine. There’s very few supplements that are absorbed by the gut (or vitamin D through the skin) better than one would get from a proper diet. Of course, some folks need to take certain supplements for medical reasons (eg. Pregnant women need to take folic acid). Evolution has already well sorted how to extract the proper nutrients from ancestral foods. There’s really no substitute for Mother Nature.

This is not true, creatine is the most studied, and most proven supplement in existence. It has been confirmed over and over to have real measurable effects on energy metabolism. Beta Alanine is reaching the same status.

I assume you're referring to multi vitamins, which is sort of true, because absorption of these is heavily dependent on presence of cofactors.

 

[andreasmaaan]

There’s really no substitute for Mother Nature.

I also sympathise with this claim intuitively, but pinning it down to some sort of concrete diet gets absurdly difficult.

As Peter Ungar, paleoanthropologist and evolutionary biologist, explains in this article about the so-called "paleo diet":

Paleolithic diet is a myth. Food choice is as much about what is available to be eaten as it is about what a species evolved to eat. And just as fruits ripen, leaves flush and flowers bloom predictably at different times of the year, foods available to our ancestors varied over deep time as the world changed around them from warm and wet to cool and dry and back again. Those changes are what drove our evolution.

Even if we could reconstruct the precise nutrient composition of foods eaten by a particular hominin species in the past (and we can't), the information would be meaningless for planning a menu based on our ancestral diet. Because our world was ever changing, so, too, was the diet of our ancestors. Focusing on a single point in our evolution would be futile. We're a work in progress. Hominins were spread over space, too, and those living in the forest by the river surely had a different diet from their cousins on the lakeshore or the open savanna...

Not to suggest that you were advocating a "paleo diet" specifically, but rather using this article to demonstrate how little guidance Mother Nature gives us on the topic of what to eat.

 

[dallasjustice]

This is not true, creatine is the most studied, and most proven supplement in existence. It has been confirmed over and over to have real measurable effects on energy metabolism. Beta Alanine is reaching the same status.

I assume you're referring to multi vitamins, which is sort of true, because absorption of these is heavily dependent on presence of cofactors.

Creatine does help build muscle mass. That’s a good thing. There’s also plenty of creatine in red meat. As you may have noticed, I eat a lot of red meat.

 

[dallasjustice]

I also sympathise with this claim intuitively, but pinning it down to some sort of concrete diet gets absurdly difficult.

As Peter Ungar, paleoanthropologist and evolutionary biologist, explains in this article about the so-called "paleo diet":



Not to suggest that you were advocating a "paleo diet" specifically, but rather using this article to demonstrate how little guidance Mother Nature gives us on the topic of what to eat.

I agree. And I don’t advocate a paleo diet because I’m not sure what that is. BUT as I recall when I was around about 11,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age, there weren’t a lot of low fat snackwells or a cereal aisles in the local grocery store. There wasn’t orange juice or high omega 6 synthetic vegetable oils/butters.

One doesn’t need to be an anthropologist to know which modern foods were not part of human ancestry.

 

[andreasmaaan]

One doesn’t need to be an anthropologist to know which modern foods were not part of human ancestry.

I agree to an extent, but I'm just not sure this tells us much, given that so many times throughout our history we successfully incorporated foods that hadn't previously been part of our ancestry.

I say this against my intuition, mind you...