Science: How much power do you really need?

[solderdude]

1V = 105dB peaks
So depending on the DR rating and type of music this means you can reach 90-95 dB SPL.
As most energy will be in the lows and our ears aren't as sensitive there you may be looking at 80-90 Phon so means playing at a ‘comfortably loud’ level which is easy to listen to for 1 or 2 songs before getting the urge to turn it down to more comfortable levels. (at least for me)
For classical recordings average levels will be lower.

No problem for playing pop music at reasonably sound levels.

Also one has to realize that occasionally slightly clipped peaks aren't very audible.

 

[Soniclife]

Is it likely you can reach the limits of say a 200W amp with traditional low-efficiency speakers?

There is a good illustration of this in the following video.

 

[Sal1950]

I'm a little skeptical of the numbers being thrown out there.
What's bothering me is that at about the 4:00 mark they focus in on the woofer and it's excursion just doesn't seem to match what I would have expected to see for a speaker having around 600 watts being delivered to it and being played at that SPL? AFAIK those Harbeth's are in the 86db efficiency range?
Maybe the filming is missing something?

 

[RichB]

I'm a little skeptical of the numbers being thrown out there.
What's bothering me is that at about the 4:00 mark they focus in on the woofer and it's excursion just doesn't seem to match what I would have expected to see for a speaker having around 600 watts being delivered to it and being played at that SPL? AFAIK those Harbeth's are in the 86db efficiency range?
Maybe the filming is missing something?

I don't get it either.
I played this title at least 2 years ago on the Salon2's and I feared for the tweeters.

I can't imagine playing this at high levels.

- Rich

 

[Kvalsvoll]

There is a good illustration of this in the following video.

The answer is in the article, but of course that is very technical and this is entertaining.

Not really sure about the scientific value of that video, but I can assure you that no person would be walking around and literally putting their heads in front of the speakers if I feed 600W into anything I have here.

 

[Xulonn]

With my used 1990's Classe Model Seventy AB amplifier on its way to Panama from New York, it's time to play with DSP and see if I can avoid wasting amplifier power on amplifying bass content that my Paradigm Atom v6 monitors simply cannot reproduce, as well as attempt to smooth out bass and mid-bass response.

After exploring a convoluted set of possibilities, I will obey Occam's Razor and return to the simplest solution - a low-cost or perhaps free, bootable, linux-based headless digital audio software with a DSP plugin - Volumio - to replace my current headless Linux application - Daphile. I like Daphile, but apparently BruteFIR require Linux knowledge and command-lin expertise - and mi Linux skills are limited. It also appears that Daphile support is fading away, and development seems to be stalled.

I will try again to get Volumio up and running on my Intel NUC, a Celeron-based fanless mini-PC. The last time I tried - a few months ago - I simply could not get it to work. But if I do, like Krunok, I can use the BruteFIR plugin for REQ, and I should be able to not only smooth out bass response, but also roll off the bass as is appropriate.

 

[restorer-john]

I stopped hearing massive differences at around 200W/ch@8 (350@4). Above that was simply unnecessary. With a genuine 40V RMS on tap, you can use any speaker and have plenty of headroom.

That said, it's sometimes fun to run a few big amps in BTL and have a few kW on tap, just because you can.

For decades, 100W/ch was where the sweet spot was in integrated amplifiers, price wise, features, build and performance. These days, with all the BS power ratings out there, it's a mess.

 

[Xulonn]

I don't get it either.
I played this title at least 2 years ago on the Salon2's and I feared for the tweeters.

I can't imagine playing this at high levels.

- Rich

I need that for my collection of exotic music - right next to Stephen Micus "The Music of Stones."

 

[Xulonn]

I stopped hearing massive differences at around 200W/ch@8 (350@4). Above that was simply unnecessary. With a genuine 40V RMS on tap, you can use any speaker and have plenty of headroom.

That said, it's sometimes fun to run a few big amps in BTL and have a few kW on tap, just because you can.

For decades, 100W/ch was where the sweet spot was in integrated amplifiers, price wise, features, build and performance. These days, with all the BS power ratings out there, it's a mess.

So John, does that mean you think this $10 (USD) per watt, 72Kg monoblock amplifier is overkill?

 

[RayDunzl]

Overkill?

Maybe by a few dB.

Not many.

Me, at 8 ohms:

The McIntosh, assuming 8 ohms:

So, 5.5dB difference.

100W at 8 ohms:

10dB difference, "twice as loud" is available.

 

[restorer-john]

So John, does that mean you think this $10 (USD) per watt, 72Kg monoblock amplifier is overkill?

It sure would 'kill' my wallet.

 

[Sal1950]

I can't imagine playing this at high levels.

Frequency extreme torture test.
Had my whole room pulsing using Auro 3D upmixed to all 11 speakers. LOL

 

[Peter Leyenaar]

I auditioned a pair of Apogee Centaur speakers (combination Woofer, Ribbon speaker) which were driven by an older 20 watt Pioneer
amp, this combo sounded horrible: shrill and distorted , obviously inadequate power.
The seller emailed me and asked me to audition them again the following day , now with a 50 watt tube amp; huge difference :clean detailed sound , very revealing and nice base extension .
I ended up buying them and now listening to them with a 65 watt tube amp : Great sound, obviously adequate power for those speakers.

 

[Xulonn]

I auditioned a pair of Apogee Centaur speakers (combination Woofer, Ribbon speaker) which were driven by an older 20 watt Pioneer
amp, this combo sounded horrible: shrill and distorted , obviously inadequate power.
The seller emailed me and asked me to audition them again the following day , now with a 50 watt tube amp; huge difference :clean detailed sound , very revealing and nice base extension .
I ended up buying them and now listening to them with a 65 watt tube amp : Great sound, obviously adequate power for those speakers.

I owned my Apogee Centaurus Monitors and a Bryston B60R integrated 60wpc amplifier from about 1998 until 2012. Like you, I found that my mid power amplifier drove the Apogees nicely, and it was one of my favorite systems over the years.