SCIBER AMPLOI Amplifier Review

[Panelhead]

We are comparing to fantastic products that are; inexpensive, relatively high volume, and many times almost generic in design.
There is still a market for low volume (boutique) products that are designed from scratch. Using four paralleled LM3886 per channel is no simple exercise. Took planning and testing to make this work. Those costs are factored in.
As far as I know that output topology has not been used commercially or diy before.
So no prior designs to copy.
I do not know price in Russia. Should be better than the US price.
I cannot throw at the product. With crazy tariffs and shipping costs this may not be like printing money for them.

 

[Billy Budapest]

E.G., Chernobyl....

@milosz Graphite-moderated nuclear reactors like the ones employed at the Chernobyl plant were invented in the U.S. by Enrico Fermi and Leo Szilard at the University of Chicago and Argonne National Laboratory.

I see you are a Chicago resident. Go visit Site A/Plot M Disposal Site in Red Gate Woods.

 

[PristineSound]

For this price, poor.

This amp is overpriced by $3500 easily, as if the manufacturer is here for a money grab.

What was going through their mind when they priced this? Yes, there are some amps that perform worse and sells for more, but they are wrapped in a very luxurious package and have brand aura and history to go with it.

This thing is in a casework that you can order from AliExpress.

It's one thing if this amp can produce a lot more power and clean power, then maybe it can justify a higher price, as it stands right now, anyone considering this, given the options available, is a fool.

 

[Billy Budapest]

This amp is overpriced by $3500 easily, as if the manufacturer is here for a money grab.

That’s not really how it works. The higher something is priced, then in general, the less units are sold and the *less* money you make. Instead, to assure production is at its most profitable, prices are determined where the marginal revenue equals the marginal cost—ie, at the exact point where for the unit produced, the level of its increase in profit and level of its decrease in cost are the same. What the $3500 price tells me is that the fixed and variable costs of production of these amps is pretty high.

 

[PristineSound]

That’s not really how it works. The higher something is priced, then in general, the less units are sold and the *less* money you make. Instead, to assure production is at its most profitable, prices are determined where the marginal revenue equals the marginal cost—ie, at the exact point where for the unit produced, the level of its increase in profit and level of its decrease in cost are the same. What the $3500 price tells me is that the fixed and variable costs of production of these amps is pretty high.

What you are describing does not have much bearing on overpriced items. There is no way in hell the BOM is more than $2k even if only one of this unit is ever made. Especially this thing uses mass produced chip amps.

And the price is $4,900, not $3,500

 

[EJ3]

This amp is overpriced by $3500 easily, as if the manufacturer is here for a money grab.

What was going through their mind when they priced this? Yes, there are some amps that perform worse and sells for more, but they are wrapped in a very luxurious package and have brand aura and history to go with it.

This thing is in a casework that you can order from AliExpress.

It's one thing if this amp can produce a lot more power and clean power, then maybe it can justify a higher price, as it stands right now, anyone considering this, given the options available, is a fool.

If you don't like the price of something, just do what I do: don't buy it.
Are you complaining about the price because you want one but think the price is too high?

Or just saying that you think that others should not buy it because of the price?
Stating your opinion that it seems pricy for what it is, is fine:
calling people fools (whatever their reason for wanting to buy one is), seems extreme.

 

[PristineSound]

calling people fools (whatever their reason for wanting to buy one is), seems extreme.

That is a very fair point you make. You I must admit, I just said something that is against what I stand for, individual choice and freedom.

Let me rephrase: "I'd be a fool to buy this given what is available on the market, others can do what they want with their money."

 

[Billy Budapest]

What you are describing does not have much bearing on overpriced items. There is no way in hell the BOM is more than $2k even if only one of this unit is ever made. Especially this thing uses mass produced chip amps.

And the price is $4,900, not $3,500

What I am describing has bearing on the pricing of all items. It is how markets work.

As far as $4,900 vs $3,500, who cares? You are talking about the same general price range, and same class of consumer. I took the $3500 price from your post, btw.

 

[PristineSound]

What I am describing has bearing on the pricing of all items. It is how markets work.

What you described is speculation on their pricing strategy.

You have no idea how much the BOM is, total R&D cost, operational overhead, etc. No one will know for sure unless you work for the company and the person setting the pricing. But one can have a general idea if they know the material cost. And this unit's pricing is clearly unrelated to the BOM cost. Which is not uncommon at all.

As a first example that comes to mind. There is a device called Bobwire speaker switch (which a sister product was tested on ASR), when it first came out, it was sold for ~$200. Less than 2 months later it sold for ~$260 and today it sells for $330. The parts used were all commodity parts that floods the market, perhaps the BOM cost is $10-40 at most, depending on volume. The R&D that went in is super simple.

So what gives?

Supply and demand, the manufacturer realized they under priced it, their strategy is pricing based on supply and demand the maximizes overall profit. Other manufacturers have a different pricing strategy based on different business models. Some manufacturers like to keep the price high, despite they can produce more units to maximize profit, but prefers to maintain exclusivity. Some manufacturers like to price low because they prefer volume business such as many of the Chinese branded HiFi.

$4,900, using ultra commodity TI chip amps shoved into an AliExpress casework? This thing got to be sold somewhere around 10x of BOM (albeit tariffs not taken into consideration). Hence I called it a money grab.

As far as $4,900 vs $3,500, who cares? You are talking about the same general price range, and same class of consumer. I took the $3500 price from your post, btw.

Where did I say that? I said "This amp is overpriced by $3500 easily"

 

[Mart68]

his thing got to be sold somewhere around 10x of BOM

10 X BOM is about the minimum you can sell almost any commercial product at and hope to make some net profit. Unless your business is one man in a shed overheads alone are highly likely to exceed the BOM. That's before you get to local taxes, shipping, and distributer/dealer margin.

 

[PristineSound]

10 X BOM is about the minimum you can sell almost any commercial product at and hope to make some net profit. Unless your business is one man in a shed overheads alone are highly likely to exceed the BOM. That's before you get to local taxes, shipping, and distributer/dealer margin.

Where did you get 10x BOM from? It's usually 2x to 5x of BOM on consumer electronics. I know this because my uncle used to manufacturer in China back in the 90's and I used to work for an electronic retail chain in northeast US as a teenager.

And my BOM multiplier estimate on this amplifier is conservative. Won't be shocked if it's more than 10x.

 

[Mart68]

Where did you get 10x BOM from? It's usually 2x to 5x of BOM on consumer electronics. I know this because my uncle used to manufacturer in China back in the 90's and I used to work for an electronic retail chain in northeast US as a teenager.

And my BOM multiplier estimate on this amplifier is conservative. Won't be shocked if it's more than 10x.

10 x BOM is a pretty standard marker, labour was very cheap in China in the 90s so I suspect that skewed the equation a bit.

No way I would take a product to market with less than 10 x BOM net selling price unless I was making them myself on the kitchen table and not costing my time. It's a good way to go broke, long term.

 

[PristineSound]

10 x BOM is a pretty standard marker, labour was very cheap in China in the 90s so I suspect that skewed the equation a bit.

No way I would take a product to market with less than 10 x BOM net selling price unless I was making them myself on the kitchen table and not costing my time. It's a good way to go broke, long term.

I am not sure what your experiences are and what type of product you have brought to market.

But that multiplier still holds today as an estimate. Unless you are running an incredibly inefficient business, 10x BOM is excessive for consumer electronics.

"For most products you can estimate that your suggested sales price will be 3-5 times your landed production cost."

Complete cost guide - Developing and manufacturing an electronic product

So you have a great idea for a new electronic product? Congratulations, and I know how exciting it can be when inspiration hits you! But before you begin – PREDICTABLE DESIGNS

predictabledesigns.com

 

[Mart68]

I am not sure what your experiences are and what type of product you have brought to market.

But that multiplier still holds today as an estimate. Unless you are running an incredibly inefficient business, 10x BOM is excessive for consumer electronics.

"For most products you can estimate that your suggested sales price will be 3-5 times your landed production cost."

Complete cost guide - Developing and manufacturing an electronic product

So you have a great idea for a new electronic product? Congratulations, and I know how exciting it can be when inspiration hits you! But before you begin – PREDICTABLE DESIGNS

predictabledesigns.com

Landed production cost is a different thing entirely.

If I were buying equipment from a Chinese OEM and re-selling it here in the UK then I would be looking at the landed price to me and calculating sales price as a multiple of that and not a multiple of BOM since BOM does not matter to me in that situation as I'm not making them.

 

[PristineSound]

Landed production cost is a different thing entirely.

If I were buying equipment from a Chinese OEM and re-selling it here in the UK then I would be looking at the landed price to me and calculating sales price as a multiple of that and not a multiple of BOM since BOM does not matter to me in that situation as I'm not making them.

The difference between landed production cost and BOM cost is the addition of logistics cost (shipping, tariffs, warehouse).

For consumer electronics, the landed production cost is approximately 20%-40% of BOM. This assumes overseas manufacturing.

Say 40%. There is no way this thing is 3-5x of landed cost.

 

[Sal1950]

Great near SOTA performance from a sudo A/B amp, but crazy overpriced for todays Hi-Fi market.
You'd have to really buy into their sales marketing story and insist on a Russian sourced product to purchase this one.
YMMV

 

[PristineSound]

Great near SOTA performance from a sudo A/B amp, but crazy overpriced for todays Hi-Fi market.
You'd have to really buy into their sales marketing story and insist on a Russian sourced product to purchase this one.
YMMV

As I said earlier, money grab.

 

[GydruS]

shoved into an AliExpress casework?

Show me please, where exactly can I buy this case on AliExpress?

And my BOM multiplier estimate on this amplifier is conservative. Won't be shocked if it's more than 10x.

No, it's dramatically less than 10x in Russia (.

 

[PristineSound]

Show me please, where exactly can I buy this case on AliExpress?

Few examples of such quality cases on AliExpress.

No, it's dramatically less than 10x in Russia (.

With unintended brashness, I regret to say that the fact of the matter is that such production cost issues in Russia just isn't a "me problem" for consumers. For consumers, a "me problem" is how much the consumer has to spend, not how much a Russian manufacturer's production cost is.

In the age of advanced Chinese manufacturing, one must compete in value, product excellence and customer service, whether one likes it or not. I own a Benchmark AHB2, $3,500 (despite it being 28% cheaper than this SCIBER), it is still very expensive compared to what the Chinese brands has to offer.

Do you think I brought the Benchmark because of national pride? Maybe national pride is an icing on the cake, but I brought a more expensive product because the value is there.

What value is in this SCIBER?

 

[geol]

I recently bought a Tangent Ampster II (on sale) for $120, 2 x 100W (4 ohms). But it's class D.