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Schubert lieder thread

Keith_W

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Schubert wrote so many lieder that I still haven't finished listening to all of them. Some of them are brilliant, some are not so brilliant. That's why we need a thread like this so that we can share his music, our favourite performances, and do a bit of analysis. I don't like music threads where people simply post album covers or YT videos without telling you why you should listen to them, so I am hoping we can avoid that here. I'll start.


Felicity Lott / Graham Johnson Der Blumen Schmerz D. 731 ("The Flower's Pain")
English translation from Oxford

With what dread do I hear
the first breezes of spring;
how sad it is to me
that flowers rise up again.

They lay so quietly
in their mother’s arms,
and now the poor things
must come out into the teeming world.

The delicate children shyly
raise their heads:
‘Who summons us into life
from the peaceful night?’

Spring, with magic words,
breathing sweet delight,
lures them through the dark portals
from their mother’s breast.

In a lustrous bridal ceremony
the flowers appear in their glory;
but the groom is already far away,
and the mighty sun glows harshly.

Now their fragrance reveals
that they are full of longing;
the refreshing scent that spices the air
is the child of sorrow.

The chalices droop,
gazing earthwards:
‘O mother, receive us again,
for life gives only pain.’

The withered leaves fall;
the snow gently covers them.
O God, so it is with all;
only in the grave is there peace.


Comment. This is a strophic song, meaning that the structure is repeated with variations. The first two strophes introduce the flower subject as an allegory of the poet's own death wish, and the tone is dark and moody. It then transitions to a naive and childlike A Major as the "delicate children" peek into the world, before they are plucked for a bright and beautiful wedding ceremony. But the mood quickly changes when the ceremony is over, leading to flowers that are left to droop and die, with only their fragrance lingering. The music seems to hang in mid air when snow covers the dead flowers, and the poet muses that only death brings us peace.
 
My favourite Schubert cycle is Winterreise. I listened to these 5 and 2 others. My breath was taken away while listening to Pérgardien and Staier, and I don’t normally like a pianoforte, but somehow, the one used here is perfect for the music. An outstanding recital.
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Winterreise has several outstanding recordings with such artists as FischerDieskau, Hotter, Vickers, Gorne, Brendel, Barenboim, Schiff ... But my favourite interprtation is the live with Peter Schreier and Sviatoslav Richter
 
Hi @Keith_W, very good idea - a thread about Lieder by Franz Schubert! As you I haven't still not listened to all of them - so I am very curious to hear what others think...

I also have to start with Schubert's Winterreise, which is my favourite of his Lieder cycles. I have around 15 different interpretations on CD, these are the ones I keep hearing again and again:
Lieblings-Winterreisen.jpg


As @Elkerton I like Prégardien and Staier a lot, part of the reason is actually that Andreas Staier is playing a Hammerklavier from Vienna/1825 (I think thats what pianoforte means), so I imagine that it sounds like an instument that Schubert may have used to play. And Christoph Prégardien is my favourite male singer for Winterreise!
But the real one that I would take if I may pick only one is by a female voice: Christine Schäfer. I don't know why, but for me it is amazing to hear her singing Winterreise, maybe because I am deeply in love with her voice and my imagination of her as a female human being. Hearing Frau Schäfer singing Der Lindenbaum it was the first time that I 'understood' that Lied, thinking it is so much more than the popular song that I was used to hear!
And the most impressive version of Winterreise is the one by Peter Anders from Jan/March 1945, recorded in Berlin. You can almost hear what was going on there a few weeks before the liberation of Germany from National Socialism and the end of the Second World War in Europe on 8 May 1945. As it is stated in the liner notes of the CD:
Peter Anders Winterreise Berlin 1945.jpg


Looking forward to hear from others about their love to Lieder by Franz Schubert; I had to start with Winterreise as well, but I will also post some other favourites of mine soon...

EDIT: Here is one from Christine Schäfer on YT, you can find the whole recording of Winterreise there:
 
My recommendation for Winterreise is Ian Bostridge / Julius Drake. Unfortunately, it's only available on DVD and not on CD, or even on streaming services.

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However, it is available on Youtube:


Why this particular version: Bostridge has a "small" voice, he's not a powerful baritone like Fischer-Dieskau. This "small" voice brings a certain tenderness and vulnerability to this version. He is so much more expressive than anyone else. This video was shot in an abandoned mental hospital and its stark emptiness perfectly mirrors the icy music.

And this opinion may draw a bit of ire, but I think that Winterreise should be sung by a male singer. Schubert clearly had a male singer in mind when he wrote this cycle, e.g. "her mother spoke of marriage" and the snow falling on the singer's black hair making it grey and transforming him into an old man. We can't demand historically informed performances and then swap the singer from a male to a female. Some of his other songs, e.g. Gretchen am Spinnrade were clearly written for female singers, so i'm not a fan when it's sung by a male.
 
This "small" voice brings a certain tenderness and vulnerability to this version. He is so much more expressive than anyone else.
I do like lieder interpretations with "small" voice and I started listening to the song cycle, but I gave up at #5 "Der Lindenbaum".
I cannot follow your statement at all. Maybe you are taking the pictures for the musical performance?
For me the interpretation seems more routine and not very expressive (and certainly not more than all others). My guess is that there is a reason this recording has not been made available on CD/streaming.
The other Winterreise recordings of Bostridge are better in my view but apart of the somewhat "smartsy" approach (that some do like and others not so much) they share another thing that is a problem for me. It is obvious that Bostridge is not a native speaker and there are phrasings and diction that shows it.
My recommendations would be
- 1952 recording of Fischer-Dieskau (+Moore) for a flowing, "natural" approach that more or less lets the music speak for itself. [In later recordings Dieskau seemed to try to get "smart" and not for the better in my view and Bostridge has gone even further down this road.]
- Schreier and Richter (already recommended by @Eleo)for an interpretation which will let you get lost with the performers in a "Richterian" view of Schubert's world of loneliness. A special interpretation but very convincing. [Richters D.960 is just awesome!]
- Pears and Britten for a highly expressionistic workout of the structure and landscape of the cycle. [Pears' diction in German is better than Bostridge's.]
And this opinion may draw a bit of ire, but I think that Winterreise should be sung by a male singer. Schubert clearly had a male singer in mind when he wrote this cycle, e.g. "her mother spoke of marriage" and the snow falling on the singer's black hair making it grey and transforming him into an old man.
From the text one might take the idea of a male singer, but the poems were not written by Schubert but by Wilhelm Müller and after Schubert transformed them to music I do not see any reason why a female singer shouldn't perform them. Why would the gender of the lyrical self and that of the voice have to match?
And it is a bit funny to bring an argument like
We can't demand historically informed performances and then swap the singer from a male to a female.
and then evangelise a recording that adds movie sound effects to the interpretation. Where has the historical information gone?
 
Your comments are fair enough @olieb. I am not a fan of the added noise in that performance either, I wish it was available as a conventional recording without the added noise.

Also fair that you might prefer Fischer-Dieskau or Schreier. They are both first rate singers, but IMO Fischer-Dieskau brings a darker tone and more restrained performance than Bostridge. Schreier's voice and performance should please anybody.

Re: debate about female singers singing male Schubert lieder roles, I discussed that with my wife last night. She told me not to go there. TV and cinema is already committing far more egregious cultural sins and trying to shut down debate by throwing accusations of racism and misogyny around. She said that "if you don't like it, fine. Go listen to the performance you prefer. But it's fairly minor compared to race swapping Anne Boleyn". She has a point. But IMO you have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise you would be listening to Brunnhilde being sung by a man, and Wotan by a woman.
 
Thank you Keith for starting this nice thread.
I too have so many Schubert leader Lieder CDs, LPs and download-purchased albums/tracks.

Even though I assume you already have this unique and impressive 2-CD album, let me share with you and other people onboard on this thread.
10382/83 Capriccio 2CD DDD released in 1991
Franz Schubert – 2 x Winterreise: Tabea Zimmermann (viola), Hartmut Höll (piano), Peter Härtling (read), Mitsuko Shirai (mezzo soprano)

https://www.discogs.com/release/11253462-Tabea-Zimmermann-Hartmut-Höll-Peter-Härtling-Mitsuko-Shirai-Franz-Schubert-2-x-Winterreise
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I guess I'm most struck by those songs of Schubert were everything seems so simple while there is so much art. Das Lied im Grünen, D. 917 · Elly Ameling · Dalton Baldwin is probably my favorite. I'm just as fond of Elizabeth Schumann's recording. But I was introduced via Elly Ameling, she has my favorite voice for Schubert:


Elizabeth Schumann's affect reigns supreme:


Another favorite (for the same reasons) is Schwanengesang, D. 957: No. 14, Die Taubenpost · Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau · Gerald Moore:

 
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....
.... But I was introduced via Elly Ameling, she has my favorite voice for Schubert:
For me too!
Elly Ameling was my idol in my youth, and it is still so nowadays. I have almost every LP and CD that she sings.

I shared several times (e.g. ref. here #588 on my project thread) about Schubert "Rosamunde" D.797 (complete) by Gewandhauseorchestter Liepzig, Kurt Masur (412 432-2 Philips), where Elly Ameling appears only in track-5 "Romance":
WS004179.JPG

You can hear track-5 "Romance" having Elly Ameling as invited soloist on YouTube:


Another favorite (for the same reasons) is Schwanengesang, D. 957: No. 14, Die Taubenpost · Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau · Gerald Moore:
I too love this album of Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau · Gerald Moore, I have early LP release, LP AA-8297 Angel Records (already digitized into 44.1 kHz 16 bit into my digital library); the performance and recoding quality are really nice.
WS020210746.JPG
 
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For several years I worked at the SongFest, and thus was "forced" to hear multiple master classes and lectures with Graham Johnson, one of the recordings is refereneced in starting post. I am still in awe at the knowledge, care, love and passion this old gentleman brings to the world of Schubert Lieder. I don't remember a single event with him that wouldn't leave the audience speechless for all 2-3 hours.
Don't think I have "favorite" recordings, but certainly there are a lot of good ones.
 
This is an explanation of the art of accompanying lieder singers by Gerald Moore, who was a famed accompanist for Fischer-Dieskau and many others. He never had much of a carrier outside providing the piano backing for lieder singers. Yes, it is an hour long ... but it is worth listening to. He is really funny, with typical dry British humour. And you will learn a lot about Schubert lieder.


 
Thank you so much for sharing this wonderful talk and demo of Gerald Moore to which I have never listened.

I just finished listening to Side-1; I very much enjoyed and learned a lot as you kindly recommended and suggested. Definitely will hear Side-2 this evening!

It is hot with clear blue sky but peaceful summer Sunday afternoon here in Chiba Prefecture, Japan; of course, comfortable very quiet air conditioners are working in our rooms...
 
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I really wish this thread would be “… Lieder …”. German isn’t the easiest of languages but every noun simply starts with a capital letter. Reading “lieder” hurts ;)
 
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