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School Band Rehearsal Room Treatment

iMickey503

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The one think the U.K has done right is Acoustic in their schools. They even have a full guideline on this topic called the BB93 Acoustic design of schools and standards.

Something like this would be the best cost per Attenuation in the room with ease of installation. But there are rules to Modifying a Public school building in the united states.
pet-baffle-lg-1024x683.jpg

(Image courtesy of Sound Zero UK)



So... There are ways around it. You can hang up "Art Work".
1658527252940.png

(Image courtesy of Sound Zero UK)



This is the cheapest / Easy method for the room. The only other thing you need is fishing line.

1658527974574.png



Place them similar to this on walls.
Hero-Dale-Saylor-Joe-Williamson-NYC-Apartment-Michael-Muller-Remodelista.jpg


Hang these with fishing line from one side of the room to the other from the walls between the fluorescent tube light fixtures so they don't block the light. This will handle the sound projected upwards and do a fair amount of attenuation in the room for the least amount of cost that still looks like art in a room.


The walls as you said are concrete. Installing carpet pad on the walls is going to be a challenge due to what I mentioned above. The best bet is to decorate the walls with terry cloth. The school's order Rolls of this out of the janitorial budget fund You won't be misusing the funds as you have not used it. You just "Stored it" in the Music room. And its already approved for purchase as a general consumable.


Use Cardboard as the school has tons of that and its free, stamped with lots of holes with a Pizza hole puncher to make it fast and easy.
This helps make the cardboard better at absorbing sound waves.
61i7PQlmyQL._AC_SL1001_.jpg



Have the art kids take the cardboard, and cut it into strips on the paper guillotine in a 12x12 square being the final result.
1658534231306.png


The side of the corrugation is surprisingly effective at absorbing sound. Have them bevel them at different heights in order to look artistic while increasing the The noise reduction coefficient. Painting them different colors will help with aesthetics.
closeup-of-a-pile-of-corrugated-cardboard-picture-id1224749283





This may be silly, but it works. Music stands contribute to a lot of Reflections that are often unwanted. Use (Clean new) Mop heads from the Janitor closet and attach them over the wide area of the back of the metal stand. This will take care of floor reflections. Do the same for underneath the chairs.
9026f3d2c1d286d8279be040712340e6--mop-heads-glass-photography.jpg



Total out of pocket cost should be less then $300.
 

sarumbear

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The one think the U.K has done right is Acoustic in their schools. They even have a full guideline on this topic called the BB93 Acoustic design of schools and standards.

Something like this would be the best cost per Attenuation in the room with ease of installation. But there are rules to Modifying a Public school building in the united states.
pet-baffle-lg-1024x683.jpg

(Image courtesy of Sound Zero UK)



So... There are ways around it. You can hang up "Art Work".
View attachment 219832
(Image courtesy of Sound Zero UK)



This is the cheapest / Easy method for the room. The only other thing you need is fishing line.

View attachment 219833


Place them similar to this on walls.
Hero-Dale-Saylor-Joe-Williamson-NYC-Apartment-Michael-Muller-Remodelista.jpg


Hang these with fishing line from one side of the room to the other from the walls between the fluorescent tube light fixtures so they don't block the light. This will handle the sound projected upwards and do a fair amount of attenuation in the room for the least amount of cost that still looks like art in a room.


The walls as you said are concrete. Installing carpet pad on the walls is going to be a challenge due to what I mentioned above. The best bet is to decorate the walls with terry cloth. The school's order Rolls of this out of the janitorial budget fund You won't be misusing the funds as you have not used it. You just "Stored it" in the Music room. And its already approved for purchase as a general consumable.


Use Cardboard as the school has tons of that and its free, stamped with lots of holes with a Pizza hole puncher to make it fast and easy.
This helps make the cardboard better at absorbing sound waves.
61i7PQlmyQL._AC_SL1001_.jpg



Have the art kids take the cardboard, and cut it into strips on the paper guillotine in a 12x12 square being the final result.
View attachment 219839

The side of the corrugation is surprisingly effective at absorbing sound. Have them bevel them at different heights in order to look artistic while increasing the The noise reduction coefficient. Painting them different colors will help with aesthetics.
closeup-of-a-pile-of-corrugated-cardboard-picture-id1224749283





This may be silly, but it works. Music stands contribute to a lot of Reflections that are often unwanted. Use (Clean new) Mop heads from the Janitor closet and attach them over the wide area of the back of the metal stand. This will take care of floor reflections. Do the same for underneath the chairs.
9026f3d2c1d286d8279be040712340e6--mop-heads-glass-photography.jpg



Total out of pocket cost should be less then $300.
The problem with your suggestions are they are absorbers and as absorbers don’t work well at lower frequencies you have the risk of ending with a bad sounding room. The top image you posted show diffusers, not absorbers. Similar to what I suggested. But you are right, acoustics is an important part of architecture in the UK.

Almost always the best way to tame a problematic acoustic space is to use diffusers. Absorbers are used to eliminate specific echoes. They are not suitable for reducing the RT60 wide band.
 
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sam_adams

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A combination of diffusion and absorption could be employed along the lines of the work by the late Bogic Petrovic. There are some examples of his designs here and here. If your school district is large enough to have a central maintenance department, they may be able to construct these diffsorbers in house which might lower the cost to the school. They would also be familiar with local and state regulations regarding construction safety and proper materials use in school sites.
 

dasdoing

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Most of the reading I've done so far (on this forum and other places) is mainly focused in the theater and listening room realms, and I'm just not sure if those guidelines are a good starting point for us

No. the goals are diferent. there is a reason that recording studios have seperated recording and control rooms.
since this is not a recording room and budget is probably limited I would just foucus on bringing the annoyence down; means reverbaration.
you can simply start to add absorbtion panels to the middle of the 4 walls, listen to the result and if not satisfied add more.
just make sure to spread out the panels like so (but don't use foam)
rehearsalrooms05-iZhaZjOodYDHslouxyXBSxr7TNNzbI0u.jpg
 

sarumbear

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No. the goals are diferent. there is a reason that recording studios have seperated recording and control rooms.
since this is not a recording room and budget is probably limited I would just foucus on bringing the annoyence down; means reverbaration.
you can simply start to add absorbtion panels to the middle of the 4 walls, listen to the result and if not satisfied add more.
just make sure to spread out the panels like so (but don't use foam)
rehearsalrooms05-iZhaZjOodYDHslouxyXBSxr7TNNzbI0u.jpg
If you use a panel like that you will reduce the RT60 above 400Hz dramatically but the room will start to sound bass heavy the more panels you add. Almost all panels sold on the market works for human voice range. They are not suitable for large bandwidth music sources. For a band rehearsal room using absorption panels are a bad idea. Here is the absorption graph of a famous 2-inch panel. You can see that it will skew the sound dramatically below 200Hz and the result is a very odd sounding room that musicians will hate.


1658665733424.png
 

theREALdotnet

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If you use a panel like that you will reduce the RT60 above 400Hz dramatically but the room will start to sound bass heavy the more panels you add.

If that. A sporadic application of sheets like that will perhaps tame a slap echo, but not much else.

In my experience, a room like this needs thick floor-to-ceiling (2400mmx1200mmx200mm) high density polyester panels, straddling at least two corners of the room. This will make bass much more listenable, while at the same time making the room dryer. If it ends up too dry (unlikely with just two panels) then the panels can be partly covered with strips of tape, foil, wood or whatever, which won’t affect their bass absorption properties.
 

dasdoing

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If you use a panel like that you will reduce the RT60 above 400Hz dramatically but the room will start to sound bass heavy the more panels you add. Almost all panels sold on the market works for human voice range. They are not suitable for large bandwidth music sources. For a band rehearsal room using absorption panels are a bad idea. Here is the absorption graph of a famous 2-inch panel. You can see that it will skew the sound dramatically below 200Hz and the result is a very odd sounding room that musicians will hate.


View attachment 220163

well, we are talking about a rehearsal room here; not a recording room. the room should be big enough to not sound boomy. however if it does, some material in the corners will help. But I just don't think it will be necessary for the purpose.
also why use decrative panels? he should DIY some panels with mineral wool. will make a nice school project for the students, too.
on a sidenote: those values on the graph are messured flush on the floor in a reverberant room. with a little gap and more narrow sound wave angles incidences it will actualy look better.
 

sarumbear

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…why use decrative panels? he should DIY some panels with mineral wool. will make a nice school project for the students, too.
on a sidenote: those values on the graph are messured flush on the floor in a reverberant room. with a little gap and more narrow sound wave angles incidences it will actualy look better.
Decorative or not, all panels use the same structure hence have a similar response.

The OP said that the room is already small, hanging large panels away from the walls is not doable. Why suggest them? Besides, if panels will be mounted away from the wall why not use a thinner absorber? Absorber panel data is readily available. No need to suggest something without supporting data.

The only logical option on this case is to reduce the reflection from the ceiling by hanging diffusers. Players will absorb & diffuse the sound from the floor and you are left with only the walls. Once the diffusers are in place any slap echoes can then be located and treated with the mentioned absorbers. Slap echo frequency will be above 300Hz or so hence the 2in panels will be efficient enough.

Diffusion should always be the first action to tame a reverberant space. This is why concert halls are treated with diffusion. Only a few absorbers used to reduce slap echoes at particular locations.

Diffusers are expensive to produce, hence they cost much more than absorbers. Sellers of acoustic treatment material to the audio market push absorbers so that their sales are not constrained by the higher priced diffusers.

Don’t be fooled by sellers. Don’t follow your instincts. Learn, calculate and use your brain to design based on knowledge.
 
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dasdoing

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Decorative or not, all panels use the same structure hence have a similar response.

The OP said that the room is already small, hanging large panels away from the walls is not doable. Why suggest them? Besides, if panels will be mounted away from the wall why not use a thinner absorber? Absorber panel data is readily available. No need to suggest something without supporting data.

The only logical option on this case is to reduce the reflection from the ceiling by hanging diffusers. Players will absorb & diffuse the sound from the floor and you are left with only the walls. Once the diffusers are in place any slap echoes can then be located and treated with the mentioned absorbers. Slap echo frequency will be above 300Hz or so hence the 2in panels will be efficient enough.

Diffusion should always be the first action to tame a reverberant space. This is why concert halls are treated with diffusion. Only a few absorbers used to reduce slap echoes at particular locations.

Diffusers are expensive to produce, hence they cost much more than absorbers. Sellers of acoustic treatment material to the audio market push absorbers so that their sales are not constrained by the higher priced diffusers.

Don’t be fooled by sellers. Don’t follow your instincts. Learn, calculate and use your brain to design based on knowledge.

I don't realy have interest in discussing the perfect solution (and I don't even have the expierience (in big rooms) to do so). My intention was to present a practical and purpously satisfying solution.
Anyways, about diffusion beeing prefered, a recording room like Abbey Roads's, for example seams to be treated manly with absorbtion (though it's not easy to say from pictures)
Abbey_Road_Studios_2010-04-08_-_orchestral_recording_in_Studio_2.jpg


I don't see advantage in defusion in big rooms, as it is manly used to make rooms sound bigger. but again, I lack experience with such rooms, and as such I guess my (attempt of) construtive contibution (should) end(s) here.
 

sarumbear

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I don't realy have interest in discussing the perfect solution (and I don't even have the expierience (in big rooms) to do so). My intention was to present a practical and purpously satisfying solution.
In other words you entered a discussion and offered a solution you think is best even though in your own words you have no experience in such spaces. Meanwhile, arguing with an acoustician that he is wrong…

Anyways, about diffusion beeing prefered, a recording room like Abbey Roads's, for example seams to be treated manly with absorbtion (though it's not easy to say from pictures)
Abbey_Road_Studios_2010-04-08_-_orchestral_recording_in_Studio_2.jpg
Funny you gave the Studio 1 as an example. Care to read my about page?
 
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dfuller

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Wall mounted absorbers of about 4" thick mineral wool will help a huge amount - A company like ATS Acoustics, Acoustimac, or GIK Acoustics sells them pre-made.

Yeah, the room might be a bit more bass heavy (not to the degree foam would be, but still skewed a bit below 150ish), but the most obnoxious reflections are those in the presence region.
 

sarumbear

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Wall mounted absorbers of about 4" thick mineral wool will help a huge amount - A company like ATS Acoustics, Acoustimac, or GIK Acoustics sells them pre-made.

Yeah, the room might be a bit more bass heavy (not to the degree foam would be, but still skewed a bit below 150ish), but the most obnoxious reflections are those in the presence region.
Here are the instruments that operate at the range where your solution will have issues as you admitted. Remember that this is a rehearsal room for a concert band. Increasing the percussion instruments’ levels 6dB will create a bad listening experience.

744E7D3D-D74D-4514-83D9-D23AE71CA181.jpeg
 

dasdoing

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In other words you entered a discussion and offered a solution you think is best even though in your own words you have no experience in such spaces. Meanwhile, arguing with an acoustician that he is wrong…


Funny you gave the Studio 1 as an example. Care to read my about page?

the thing is you are so focussed in showing your knowledge that you forgot that this is a school band rehearshal room, not a professional recording room. anyways; always good to have someone spreading knowledge
 

sarumbear

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the thing is you are so focussed in showing your knowledge that you forgot that this is a school band rehearshal room, not a professional recording room. anyways; always good to have someone spreading knowledge
Ha! You are the one who is giving examples of a studio. I am giving practical advice and suggesting the use of low cost DIY solution.

Besides, yes, I am focused on knowledge. What else there to do, focus on audiofoolery?
 
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