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Schitt Sol Turntable

anmpr1

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It's what many of us suspected. They were working off a lab prototype and once it went to manufacture they didn't check the tolerances, but just shipped it out, figuring that their prototype must be what was in all those finished product boxes. Poor QC in an attempt to rush a half thought out product.

I think most folks want to see a small value-oriented Audio company succeed. Another Dynaco type outfit offering decent products for the price. But my impression is that they are trying to cover too many bases with too few infielders. You can't reach an economy of scale selling half-baked products. They are mostly supported by an enthusiastic fan base. Hard core fans always tend to look the other way. But this sort of QC mess can really sour a small operation in a general marketplace.
 

majingotan

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At least Schiit cares for their customers regarding the "beta" experience from their products. I myself have been wanting a Chord Poly streamer, yet Chord doesn't care about their customers and just producing buggy fixes to their broken streamer. Chord should've just pulled them out of shelves in less than a month or so since its release and beta test them to their most loyal customers before releasing it to public with all its faults fixed
 

Ratatoskr

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I saw the beta references again....where is the discontinued reference?
It is in the link. Sol might be discontinued, it has not been decided yet.
This is the big boy. I think we just had been running prototypes for so long that we figured everything was fine. But between parts tolerance issues, bad machining, and other production glitches, we went from “selling” back to “beta” in just a few days. We continue to work on this product with the voluntary beta-testers (anyone who wanted out was given a full refund, including shipping, and beta testers were given a discount), but it’s slow going. Don’t be surprised if there are further delays. This is a complex product, and, if we start selling again, we want it to be right.

“Hold up, did you say, ‘if’ we start selling it again?” you might ask.

And yes, that’s exactly what I said. If we can’t make this a stellar product (consistently), we may not continue with it. In that case, all beta testers get 100% refunds and that’s the end of that.

Jason also posted separately:
Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view), the market has evolved since we initially planned Sol. Now, you can get a $180 U-Turn turntable as an affordable starting point, or a $1000 VPI with an aluminum platter--both made in USA. Pro-Ject has a dizzying array of options at all price points. These turntables are take-it-out-and-use-it affairs, and most are more friendly than ours, with dust covers and such.

At the same time, the price of Sol crept up. So we're entering a market that has evolved towards us, and we're not shaking much up anymore. We're not big on getting into markets just for a me-too, so we need to take a long, hard look at things.

Nothing has been decided yet, but since each thing we fix seems to uncover two more issues, we are weighing all the options. We'll see what happens once we get more data this week and next.
I hope they work it out and continue to sell Sol but if not it is good to know that no one will lose any money. Everyone gets refunded.
 
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anmpr1

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I saw the beta references again....where is the discontinued reference?
The statement was about as close to giving up on it as Stoddard probably wanted to make. Clearly it's not on their A-list of things to figure out.

I have no axe to grind with the company. In fact I own two of their little boxes that were OK value for the dollar (albeit they live in a closet somewhere). I've said it before, they need to figure out how to be David Hafler, and not Nelson Pass. They obviously have the hands to create, and their heart seems to be in the right place, but they really need to pull their head out of where it is, and work on the engineering portion of their gear. In Schitt's case the mediator needs to be the head.

metrop.jpg
 

bigx5murf

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I saw the beta references again....where is the discontinued reference?

"
Idiocy #3: Screwup on Sol. This is the big boy. I think we just had been running prototypes for so long that we figured everything was fine. But between parts tolerance issues, bad machining, and other production glitches, we went from “selling” back to “beta” in just a few days. We continue to work on this product with the voluntary beta-testers (anyone who wanted out was given a full refund, including shipping, and beta testers were given a discount), but it’s slow going. Don’t be surprised if there are further delays. This is a complex product, and, if we start selling again, we want it to be right.

“Hold up, did you say, ‘if’ we start selling it again?” you might ask.

And yes, that’s exactly what I said. If we can’t make this a stellar product (consistently), we may not continue with it. In that case, all beta testers get 100% refunds and that’s the end of that.

Let’s talk about this some more.

Sol had a long gestation, and although there are people here who care deeply about the product, caring only gets you so far. It has to be clearly better than the competition, or serve a unique need, for us to produce it. The world doesn’t need more me-too products. Nor does it need products that are a source of continual frustration.

So, if we get it worked out to our satisfaction, and to the delight of the beta testers, we will re-introduce Sol. If not, we won’t.

Which way will it go? I don’t know."
 

JJB70

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I think the Sol turntable summed up what was wrong with Schiit, a half baked product which failed to get the basics right.

BUT, I will say that recently some of their electronics have been very impressive. The Schiit Heresy for example offers excellent performance, biblical power to drive anything and all at low cost. That is commendable. And in fairness the buyback and beta program for those who bought this turntable was well done.

So I tend to agree with those above that thinks they should maybe put their effort into doing less but doing what they do make well as I'll admit I've altered my opinion of their products over the last year as they've been improving.
 

direstraitsfan98

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what jason is saying makes no sense. uturn has been selling their turntables for half a decade now. much longer then schiit was even thinking of releasing a turntable. vpi's entry level turntable costs 3 times as much as the sol, and pro-ject doesnt make anything entry level that isn't oem made in china junk. so those comparisons are irrelevant.
 

mannye

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I don't own any Schitt products but I’m really glad to see them own up to a mistake and not pussy foot around trying to offer “credit” or vouchers but a full refund.
Nothing more can be asked of any company.
I may never have considered Schitt products but now that I see this behavior they are going into my rotation the next time I’m looking for audio equipment.
 
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majingotan

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I don't own any Schitt products but I’m really glad to see them own up to a mistake and not pussy foot around trying to offer “credit” or vouchers but a full refund.
Nothing more can be asked of any company.
I may never have considered Schitt products but now that I see this behavior they are going into my rotation the next time I’m looking for audio equipment.

IMO, without regards to sound, I've never had a Schiit DAC or amp or preamp product break down on me. Heck I've spilled coffee on my Schiit Saga preamp a couple of years back and I thought it was a goner but the only thing that broke was the 5692 Hytron brown base NOS tube. The horrid of hearing incredibly loud hum from my speakers is just shocking. Let it dry on a bag of rice and pop-in a NOS RCA 5692 Red Base and voila it sounds exactly like it was brand-new.
 

Billy Budapest

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pro-ject doesnt make anything entry level that isn't oem made in china junk. so those comparisons are irrelevant.

It is my understanding that all of Pro-Ject’s turntables are made in their plant in the Czech Republic. The E.A.T. turntables and most of the Music Hall turntables are made in those plants, too.

According to Pro-Ject’s website: “In Czech Republic, we produce all our turntables from scratch, by hand and in house.”
 

Ratatoskr

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Jason posted on Head-Fi that depending on feedback from the beta testers on the fixes sent out (and parts) Sol may be back for sale in February. He recently confirmed on SBAF that Sol will be back in February, good news for those who have been waiting. I suppose there could be a last minute decision to delay so it is not written in stone until Sol shows up in stock for sale on the website. When it goes back on sale Sol will be sold with a cartridge already set up, probably a Grado or Ortofon Red.
 

hollis

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So if Sol is out. Where should one look at the $600-1k price point? Uturn still feels a bit low. I grabbed a Rega P5 used for $800, but thats not repeatable or recommendable to friends and family.
 

AudioSceptic

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So if Sol is out. Where should one look at the $600-1k price point? Uturn still feels a bit low. I grabbed a Rega P5 used for $800, but thats not repeatable or recommendable to friends and family.
The Planar 3 (P3) is around £650 with Elys 2 cart in the UK. This has been the one to beat in this price range ever since the first version in the late 70s. Other than finding the best location for it, setup is as easy as it can be.
 

anmpr1

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Technics SL-1500C $1199

These are the differences as I find them:

Technics has an integrated phono stage. Sol plus their phono stage is going to match the price of the Technics, maybe a hundred dollars less. With free shipping from a place like Crutchfield, and not having to pay return freight and stocking fees if you don't like it, any price difference might be a wash.

Technics uses an Ortofon, Sol ships with either a Grado or AT. My guess is that either a lower end Grado or AT will perform (sound) better than the Ortofon Red, but it's just a guess on my part. At this price point it could be a toss up.

Sol has a modernist tinker-toy industrial look about it which could appeal to some buyers. Technics has that '70s 'traditional' Japanese look which could appeal to some buyers.

Unipivot tonearms are often flaky to set up, and wonky. Unipivots in general have that going for them. I don't know about the Sol, but it's a unipiviot. The Technics gimbal supported arm is going to be a lot easier to set up/change cartridges. On the other hand, Sol offers replaceable arm wands if one has to change cartridges. Not as quick as headshells, but it's there. Headshells are generally a lot cheaper to stock than tonearm wands. Sol uses carbon fiber, Technics aluminum.

Quartz PLL direct drive is going to be much more precise than belt drive, but not as simple to effect. However, in actual practice it might be difficult to hear a rotational artifact (wow/flutter) from either, if both are on speed. Sol uses a high speed motor with belt reduction to achieve rotational stability. The Technics motor is connected to the platter and turns at the selected speed.

You get 78rpm with Technics. Unless you are a 78 collector, the higher speed will only be used for using a Discwasher brush real fast.

Technics has no suspension to speak of. Sol uses a spider assembly that appears to be somewhat damped. Both should probably be kept away from acoustic and mechanical vibration.

If you want to play the mod game, KAB makes an aftermarket fluid damper for the Technics--resistive silicon gunk trough with paddle, located at the pivot. Oil damping was often standard with unipivots back in the day (Formula 4, Ultracraft, Micro, etc.). Sol doesn't look to be damped.

Sol evidently has adjustable arm height during play. This particular Technics offers arm height adjustment, but not during play. I believe Technics uses a simple set screw, and not the rotational collar adjustment of the SL-1200 series.

Sol is manual. Technics offers end of record lift, but I've read reviews indicating that this feature is not always reliable. I've also read that the Technics cueing system is not very smooth. Don't know about the Sol.

Technics is made in Malaysia. Sol is made in the USA. If you require warranty service, my guess is that the Full of Schiit guys will interact with you better than Panasonic. Never attempt to interact with a large multinational. You'll be wasting your time, and time is too valuable a commodity to waste. Instead, make sure you have a reputable dealer if you buy Technics. [edit: FWIW I own two Technics turntables--SL-1100a from 1975 and SL-1200 Mk5 from 2005. Both work like new. Whether the Malaysian Tehnics product is as well built or will last as long? YMMV. I also own a couple of Schiit electronic products that appear to be well built for the dollar--headphone amp and DAC.]

Technics comes with a dustcover with that cool looking bubble over the arm.

That's about it. Oh. I forgot. The biggest difference between the two brands is that Michiko Ogawa and Sara Ott look a lot better than the Full of Schiit guys. That alone would make me pull the trigger for the Technics, all other things being equal.

technics.jpg

schiit.jpg
 
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mhardy6647

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The comparison photo above is the icing on the cake!

Also, Matsushita/Panasonic has been making turntables for a long, long time, and were early adopters (and, arguably, perfectors) of direct drive.
Schiit... well... not so much.

I am still of the opinion that the Sol is Schiit's idea of an inside joke at the expense of the vinylistas.

expense and inconvenience.jpg
 

ribosradagast

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I have the SL-1500C and I agree, it's probably the "checks all the boxes" recommendation for anything around the 1k price point.

I've managed to adjust the auto-lift feature to get it working correctly - the procedure for doing so is in the 'service manual', which is not included in the box. It's a (relatively) simple firmware programming though.

Relevantly to the thread at hand, I made the mistake of trying to contact Panasonic customer support about the tone-arm lift. Not only did they take 36 days to get back to me, the info they gave me was factually incorrect. Shameful.
 

anmpr1

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I am still of the opinion that the Sol is Schiit's idea of an inside joke at the expense of the vinylistas.
Given Schiits product line, and how they offer the same gear with optional tubes sticking out of the top for x-tra dollars, if this Sol thing catches fire (figuratively speaking, of course) I'm thinking the company ought to release a version with tubes sticking out of the top. The toobs wouldn't even have to do anything. Just be there. For emotional support.

This makes sense since Schiit appears to be going for the erswhile Dynaco market, and Dyna was known as the 'poor man's McInstosh'. Schiit could then compete with the latest and greatest McIntosh lifestyle product--Mac's record player with the green tubes on top. LOL

As far as being an inside joke? A lot of the company's marketing appears to be an inside joke. I wish them well, as they can produce solid tech if they want. They've demonstrated that. But Sol looks too Mickey Mouse and gimmicky to me. Too flimsy. On the other hand, if its the beez kneez of record players then bully for them. I remain skeptical.
 
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