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Schiit Vidar vs NC502MP???

shortyg83

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Ok so I am torn on an amp for my setup. I was going to get a VTV amplifier with the NC502MP board. This would give me 350wpc at 8ohm. But even though the distortion is lower than older class D. It still scares me to use a class D amplifier for my speakers feeling I may hear the distortion.
The second option is 2 Schiit Vidars running in mono mode which would give me 400wpc. This would cost 1400 vs the 800 for the NC502MP. But in my head at least should sound better. I am not someone who believes SINAD is the best way to measure amplifiers.
Can anyone who has heard both amplifiers possibly give me some insight?

Will be used to power my front channels. Source coming from a Yamaha Aventage Receiver. Speakers Focal Aria 936.
 

Matias

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@shortyg83 NC502MP is an awesome module, I doubt you would dislike it. And VTV has 30 day trial and has them in stock, so really low risk. Internally it is simple and looks OK I suppose.

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shortyg83

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Why is it that in the Amir review he is only getting 170-200wpc in 8ohm when it is rated for 350
 

rwortman

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If you believe the class D amp will sound bad, don’t buy it. Your belief will nag you every time you listen to it.
 

raindance

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Why is it that in the Amir review he is only getting 170-200wpc in 8ohm when it is rated for 350
Why would that matter? It's dependant on the amount of distortion you allow in the test. If you allow a higher distortion level, you'll see more power. Your speakers are efficient and your ears will be damaged long before the module runs out of power (unless your room is the size of a football field). In fact the difference in volume between 200 watts and 350 watts is likely hardly audible.
 

Matias

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Why is it that in the Amir review he is only getting 170-200wpc in 8ohm when it is rated for 350
Amir measures the entire curve of power versus distortion+noise. Usually he takes the power at the knee, right before the amp starts clipping and the curve shoots up. But the "industry standard" is to measure the continuous power at 1% THD+N. And in 4 ohms the NC502MP measured 600 watts in 4 ohms, even higher than the 500 watts specified, which is super powerful and low distortion before then.

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Frank Sol

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Generally speaking if one is worried about good 200w vs rated 350w in a home setup... then there is nothing to worry about
 
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mdunjic

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Ok so I am torn on an amp for my setup. I was going to get a VTV amplifier with the NC502MP board. This would give me 350wpc at 8ohm. But even though the distortion is lower than older class D. It still scares me to use a class D amplifier for my speakers feeling I may hear the distortion.
The second option is 2 Schiit Vidars running in mono mode which would give me 400wpc. This would cost 1400 vs the 800 for the NC502MP. But in my head at least should sound better. I am not someone who believes SINAD is the best way to measure amplifiers.
Can anyone who has heard both amplifiers possibly give me some insight?

Will be used to power my front channels. Source coming from a Yamaha Aventage Receiver. Speakers Focal Aria 936.
I switched from Quad 909, to Audiophonics NC500MP based class D mono-blocks (mainly due to significantly less heat generated than Quad 909) and all I can say is that fears about distortion with Hypex / Purifi based power amps are absolutely unfounded ... in fact these Hypex modules (I believe NC502MP has even slightly better measurements than NC500MP) have much lower distortion than comparable class A/B power amps and also ruler flat response curve. Therefore, fear not ... latest Hypex / Purify based class D based amps are amazingly good sounding amps. It's proven in my case ... I just also purchased NC502MP based stereo version and I want to bi-amp my Neat Acoustics Motive 1 floor-standers - NC500MP based mono-blocks will drive bass drivers, while NC502MP based stereo amp will drive midrange and tweeters. ... 700W of amazingly clean power per speaker into 8 ohms ... lol ... crazy sound quality for this amount of money ($1500 EUR total), eh?
 
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mdunjic

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Why is it that in the Amir review he is only getting 170-200wpc in 8ohm when it is rated for 350
350w is delivered at 1% THD

I believe Amir’s THD threshold for measuring max power is significantly lower

That’s probably why
 

SoNic

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If one listen only to static sine waves, then that one surely will be happy with a class D amplifier, especially if fed by a delta-sigma DAC.
Because measurements show that, and nothing more. Static signal response.

For me, because I listen to variable musical programs, with lots of transients, I feel that both class D amps and delta-sigma DACs lack in their dynamic response to transients. The closed loop of their respective converters will add distortion on that transitional phase, until they settle to the new value of the sin wave. And this keeps happening all the time, because music is variable all the time.
Sure, listening to programs from a delta-sigma DAC, trough an analog amp or a class D amp, will yield similar results, because the damage is already done at DAC level. So no reason not to use a class D amp if a delta-sigma DAC makes you happy.
Is like comparing two audio chains, one high end and another cheap commercial, while the source is mp3. They will sound the same, so no reason why you should buy into the expensive chain.

PS: ESSTechnology has a white paper about their Sabre DAC that explains how they addressed this issue in their design. Personally I don't think they managed, but hey, they tried.
Also, TI/Burr Brown went a different direction - their DACs have the most significant 6 bit processed as multibit and below that is delta-sigma. This way the biggest portion of the transients is processed quickly, lowering the transitional distortion. They also have a whitepaper.

PPS: One can ignore those white papers, they are too hard to comprehend, and keep with the blind faith. I don't care.
 
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Mowz

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I have both. Sound the same to me. Vidar 1 does not have auto off. Vidar 2 has buttons in front. Both have 5 year warranty. Same warranty is available on some of the hypex modules.
 

tw99

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If one listen only to static sine waves, then that one surely will be happy with a class D amplifier, especially if fed by a delta-sigma DAC.
Because measurements show that, and nothing more. Static signal response.

For me, because I listen to variable musical programs, with lots of transients, I feel that both class D amps and delta-sigma DACs lack in their dynamic response to transients. The closed loop of their respective converters will add distortion on that transitional phase, until they settle to the new value of the sin wave. And this keeps happening all the time, because music is variable all the time.
Sure, listening to programs from a delta-sigma DAC, trough an analog amp or a class D amp, will yield similar results, because the damage is already done at DAC level. So no reason not to use a class D amp if a delta-sigma DAC makes you happy.
Is like comparing two audio chains, one high end and another cheap commercial, while the source is mp3. They will sound the same, so no reason why you should buy into the expensive chain.

PS: ESSTechnology has a white paper about their Sabre DAC that explains how they addressed this issue in their design. Personally I don't think they managed, but hey, they tried.
Also, TI/Burr Brown went a different direction - their DACs have the most significant 6 bit processed as multibit and below that is delta-sigma. This way the biggest portion of the transients is processed quickly, lowering the transitional distortion.
Absolute rubbish.

For the OP, I moved from a big class AB 150W traditional amp to a NC502 box.

It's way more powerful, cheaper to run and purchase, smaller, and sounds the same.

I recommend you just ignore the audiophile BS around these devices.
 

mdunjic

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If one listen only to static sine waves, then that one surely will be happy with a class D amplifier, especially if fed by a delta-sigma DAC.
Because measurements show that, and nothing more. Static signal response.

For me, because I listen to variable musical programs, with lots of transients, I feel that both class D amps and delta-sigma DACs lack in their dynamic response to transients. The closed loop of their respective converters will add distortion on that transitional phase, until they settle to the new value of the sin wave. And this keeps happening all the time, because music is variable all the time.
Sure, listening to programs from a delta-sigma DAC, trough an analog amp or a class D amp, will yield similar results, because the damage is already done at DAC level. So no reason not to use a class D amp if a delta-sigma DAC makes you happy.
Is like comparing two audio chains, one high end and another cheap commercial, while the source is mp3. They will sound the same, so no reason why you should buy into the expensive chain.

PS: ESSTechnology has a white paper about their Sabre DAC that explains how they addressed this issue in their design. Personally I don't think they managed, but hey, they tried.
Also, TI/Burr Brown went a different direction - their DACs have the most significant 6 bit processed as multibit and below that is delta-sigma. This way the biggest portion of the transients is processed quickly, lowering the transitional distortion. They also have a whitepaper.

PPS: One can ignore those white papers, they are too hard to comprehend, and keep with the blind faith. I don't care.
LoL
 

BDWoody

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If one listen only to static sine waves, then that one surely will be happy with a class D amplifier, especially if fed by a delta-sigma DAC.
Because measurements show that, and nothing more. Static signal response.

:facepalm:
 

MaxBuck

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If one listen only to static sine waves, then that one surely will be happy with a class D amplifier, especially if fed by a delta-sigma DAC.
Because measurements show that, and nothing more. Static signal response.

For me, because I listen to variable musical programs, with lots of transients, I feel that both class D amps and delta-sigma DACs lack in their dynamic response to transients. The closed loop of their respective converters will add distortion on that transitional phase, until they settle to the new value of the sin wave. And this keeps happening all the time, because music is variable all the time.
Sure, listening to programs from a delta-sigma DAC, trough an analog amp or a class D amp, will yield similar results, because the damage is already done at DAC level. So no reason not to use a class D amp if a delta-sigma DAC makes you happy.
Is like comparing two audio chains, one high end and another cheap commercial, while the source is mp3. They will sound the same, so no reason why you should buy into the expensive chain.

PS: ESSTechnology has a white paper about their Sabre DAC that explains how they addressed this issue in their design. Personally I don't think they managed, but hey, they tried.
Also, TI/Burr Brown went a different direction - their DACs have the most significant 6 bit processed as multibit and below that is delta-sigma. This way the biggest portion of the transients is processed quickly, lowering the transitional distortion. They also have a whitepaper.

PPS: One can ignore those white papers, they are too hard to comprehend, and keep with the blind faith. I don't care.
Okay.
 

Tom C

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If one listen only to static sine waves, then that one surely will be happy with a class D amplifier, especially if fed by a delta-sigma DAC.
Because measurements show that, and nothing more. Static signal response.

For me, because I listen to variable musical programs, with lots of transients, I feel that both class D amps and delta-sigma DACs lack in their dynamic response to transients. The closed loop of their respective converters will add distortion on that transitional phase, until they settle to the new value of the sin wave. And this keeps happening all the time, because music is variable all the time.
Sure, listening to programs from a delta-sigma DAC, trough an analog amp or a class D amp, will yield similar results, because the damage is already done at DAC level. So no reason not to use a class D amp if a delta-sigma DAC makes you happy.
Is like comparing two audio chains, one high end and another cheap commercial, while the source is mp3. They will sound the same, so no reason why you should buy into the expensive chain.

PS: ESSTechnology has a white paper about their Sabre DAC that explains how they addressed this issue in their design. Personally I don't think they managed, but hey, they tried.
Also, TI/Burr Brown went a different direction - their DACs have the most significant 6 bit processed as multibit and below that is delta-sigma. This way the biggest portion of the transients is processed quickly, lowering the transitional distortion. They also have a whitepaper.

PPS: One can ignore those white papers, they are too hard to comprehend, and keep with the blind faith. I don't care.
Looks like nobody here agrees with you.
 

Tom C

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Ok so I am torn on an amp for my setup. I was going to get a VTV amplifier with the NC502MP board. This would give me 350wpc at 8ohm. But even though the distortion is lower than older class D. It still scares me to use a class D amplifier for my speakers feeling I may hear the distortion.
The second option is 2 Schiit Vidars running in mono mode which would give me 400wpc. This would cost 1400 vs the 800 for the NC502MP. But in my head at least should sound better. I am not someone who believes SINAD is the best way to measure amplifiers.
Can anyone who has heard both amplifiers possibly give me some insight?

Will be used to power my front channels. Source coming from a Yamaha Aventage Receiver. Speakers Focal Aria 936.
What did you pull the trigger on?
 
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