Schiit Vidar 2 Stereo Amplifier Review

[Trudius]

I have one of their Saga S preamps. It works great. It was really dumb of them to abandon it in favor of another stupid tube preamp at a higher price for no benefit.

Probably because the sales were going down, that is how Schiit has been operating for ~10 years. In their last youtube posting they mentioned a possible replacement for the Saga S. I don't know whether it would feature any options.

 

[gxleetw]

I will never understand anyone wanting to add tubes to modern devices*.

Paraphrasing from someone’s analogy on ASR here: it’s like why you have salt and peppers, hot sauce, etc on restaurant tables. How dare anyone wants to “alter” what the chef intended? I do use condiments from time to time, also I know what I am pouring to my food. But I won’t judge those purists, nor I’d care if they come to preach when seeing me adding pepper to that fine piece of steak. At the end of the day, just enjoy it your way!

 

[Bob101]

Take a Purifi or Hypex module. Can you fix it? Nope. You cannot. Straight to the scrap heap.

Has it occured to you that they just might not need fixing? I might be somewhat on the fence on SMPS's, but quality amp modules (Hypex, Purifi) will just last... Treat them like you would your class A, AB or valve amps, Just use common sense, like: don't store them in a damp cellar or attic for years, etc.
Let's both revisit this thread in 2049 and then we'll see how our amps are faring. Until then you're just speculating. And so am I

 

[restorer-john]

Until then you're just speculating.

Hardly. They are basically unfixable. No schematics, no service manuals and no manufacturer help at all. Didn't you know that? Destined for the landfill- not the repair shop.

 

[jruser]

Hardly. They are basically unfixable. No schematics, no service manuals and no manufacturer help at all. Didn't you know that? Destined for the landfill- not the repair shop.

I lurk a lot here and always get a kick of you crapping on class-D. I know you dislike the repairability aspect, would you ever buy a class-D amp for your own system?

 

[dlaloum]

I lurk a lot here and always get a kick of you crapping on class-D. I know you dislike the repairability aspect, would you ever buy a class-D amp for your own system?

Most of Restorer-John's comments when boiled down, relate primarily to serviceability as an integral engineering feature of the product - that includes not just the design of the circuit boards, layout, and chosen components, but also the development of detailed service manuals and the provision of schematics.

They aren't necessarily (he can speak for himself on this) - comments relating to a class of amp.

My current AVR is a ClassAB... but more than 2 years after its release onto the market, there is still no word of service manuals for it... and anecdotal reports, are that the manufacturer is replacing all warranty claims with a new complete AVR... so they seem to no even be bothering with replacing individual boards within them....
This bodes ill for long term serviceability/life.

Which is less of an issue for an AVR... which will most likely be completely obsolete within 20 years.... whereas a power amp, can expect to have a useful life measured in decades rather than years... (the shift from passive to active speakers, may change that... if actives end up dominating the market)

My late 1980's Quad 606 is still a great amp today - and it is serviceable and maintainable.
My 2022 Integra DRX3.4 is a decent AVR (excellent AVP) - but it appears to be unserviceable, non-maintainable, and probably has a useful lifetime of less than 10 years. Yeah I hope I'm wrong on this, and I hope Onkyo/Integra release service manuals for the current series.

 

[restorer-john]

I know you dislike the repairability aspect, would you ever buy a class-D amp for your own system?

I have two Sony TAN-88Bs (Class D from 1978) and a pile of dead Hypex modules along with various toy class D amps I bought for fun.

The Sonys I bought dead too. They used SMPS supplies and VFET Class D amps 46 years ago. Same problems, nearly a half century apart. But, easy to fix the Sonys. Why?

Everything from theory of operation, adjustments, full parts list and of course schematics.

That's the difference. ^^

Screw companies that deliberately ensure their products are not repaired or repairable. I will never support, recommend or keep quiet about that.

I've been doing this for decades, and I've never seen such a wholesale evaporation of customer after sales service and support as has happened in the last 10 years. It's just not acceptable to me and never will be.

 

[Brian Hall]

Paraphrasing from someone’s analogy on ASR here: it’s like why you have salt and peppers, hot sauce, etc on restaurant tables. How dare anyone wants to “alter” what the chef intended? I do use condiments from time to time, also I know what I am pouring to my food. But I won’t judge those purists, nor I’d care if they come to preach when seeing me adding pepper to that fine piece of steak. At the end of the day, just enjoy it your way!

Hot sauce is great on some things. I wouldn't want it on ice cream. Having tubes seems like a lot like being stuck with putting hot sauce on everything.

 

[Count Dacula]

I just realized, as a relative latecomer, that D class amps are the LED bulb of audio....in multiple ways.

 

[kemmler3D]

Having tubes seems like a lot like being stuck with putting hot sauce on everything.

Good extension of the analogy. This is why neutral speakers and gear are (considered by some as definitely) best. Don't season the food before you've tasted it.

 

[pogo]

They are basically unfixable. No schematics, no service manuals and no manufacturer help at all. Didn't you know that? Destined for the landfill- not the repair shop.

That is not correct. E.g. for NAD, the Class-D stages (partly built under license) are being repaired/modified (service bulletin) in my neighborhood.

 

[Deleted member 72381]

Hardly. They are basically unfixable. No schematics, no service manuals and no manufacturer help at all. Didn't you know that? Destined for the landfill- not the repair shop.

This post from diyaudio suggests otherwise:

I wrote last night to Hypex tech support via their online form, and they answered first thing this morning! Kudos for the Hypex support, they could have replied this is proprietary data, or that I should send the module to an approved repair center, but instead they provide free help to a noname DIY silly enough to have blown their product. They even go further than my request and hint to other components to check. Needless to say I am so darn impressed

Hypex does provide help to people repairing their products -- even hobbyists. Didn't you know that?

 

[Count Dacula]

I don't want to get in the middle of this, but I guess you would say, "not worth fixing" ....especially if you pay a tech.

but that says something about the capitol costs involved in an AB amp. The PS, the transistors, the heatsinks and bigger case... it commands a deeper investment if a small parts repair is in order.

So that's again like my industrial model from the Wars; a high value German tank verses Stalin's T-34s, where he claims that "quantity has a quality all of it's own".

 

[mhardy6647]

I just realized, as a relative latecomer, that D class amps are the LED bulb of audio....in multiple ways.

Don't get me freakin' started on the lifespan of the current crop of hyper-cheap (too cheap) LED for domestic use.

 

[NoMoFoNo]

Repairability only matters if there are technicians available AND they service gear at prices that make sense. In my local area, good luck finding a technician to repair ANY amplifier, even a tube amp. I recently sent an old tube amp to the landfill because I couldn't for the life of me find someone in my area to repair it.

Further, considering the prices of excellent performance in the Class D realm, and here I'm talking about the latest designs from Aiyima and Fosi as prime examples, how does it make any economic sense to take small Class D gear in for repair?

As for Class A, Class AB and Hypex/Purifi, all should be expected to be even more niche than they are already in coming years. For every hobbyist and audio-jewelry buyer, there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of buyers who simply want what can be provided for peanuts by Fosi, Aiyima and a few others.

 

[TonyJZX]

i think the vidar is basically... a quasi computer in that we know this company likes to sneak in microprocessors and so any repair is basically a board swapping game... if you can get a complete spare board

but yeah i get it... like even if the amp is pure analog you need to find someone willing to repair it

i think these places just dont really exist any more... as a business i mean... remeber the day when there used to be microwave repair men?

for me even going back decades ago it was a struggle to get anyone willing to look at a service manual on a machine they will probably only ever see once in their life and work on it... for any price

in another thread, the Chord Hugo, we have a youtuber, Dave Jones repairing that but realistically, is there a business case for that kind of thing?

i look at modern electronics as something that pass the scant warranty, whatever you may get, and every year that passes is gravy but its one step away from landfill.

 

[Count Dacula]

Without comment, I can add the metrics from my Receiver saga. Got a midrange Dennon, Nakamichi and a NIB Sony ES repaired with 2 of 3 being fixed successfully. The tech is a ball buster, but likes me, and knows I'll throw money at him to get what I want.

I just gave up on the ES, it was a family member's who bought it in 1992 and never took it out of the box, so I did want to fix it again, but didn't want to be a pain at the electro tech. Not worth it at this point, I grabbed a Fosi for $70 to stick in front of the TV.

It'll go on a pile with a HK receiver that lasted 2-3 years with no repair attempted, So this story is playing out IRL for me. I just moved that Nakamichi Receiver 2 to the porch-outdoor system, it's 30-55w is fine for 6" Yamaha outdoor speakers. Listening outside is an experience in itself. Anyway, the NAK gave way to an Onkyo for the Big TV, my first time with the brand. It's AB, but new and cheap beats old and glitchy.

 

[dzerig]

So far as repairs go, my experience with sending in a BiFrost 2 dac for repair cost $150 plus shipping to them. I don't think they charged extra for return shipping, but not sure. At $700 new, I feel like I got a good value and still saved money vs new. I have several used pieces, only one needed repair.

 

[Trudius]

Repairability only matters if there are technicians available AND they service gear at prices that make sense. In my local area, good luck finding a technician to repair ANY amplifier, even a tube amp. I recently sent an old tube amp to the landfill because I couldn't for the life of me find someone in my area to repair it.

Further, considering the prices of excellent performance in the Class D realm, and here I'm talking about the latest designs from Aiyima and Fosi as prime examples, how does it make any economic sense to take small Class D gear in for repair?

As for Class A, Class AB and Hypex/Purifi, all should be expected to be even more niche than they are already in coming years. For every hobbyist and audio-jewelry buyer, there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of buyers who simply want what can be provided for peanuts by Fosi, Aiyima and a few others.

But that is the point that @restorer-john made. Since they are so cheap and unserviceable, they are not worth the cost of shipping them back to China plus parts for >100% of the original cost, which means they'll end up at a landfill at the country of sale after ~2 years of use. He is for non-disposable high value electronic components, that can be restored. People are still paying high pennies for vintage audio in 2024. The "vintage" Fosi, Aiyima, SMSL are from 2022, no one is interested in those products. Their whole model of operation is unsustainable and not driven by usual market incentives. I can see a sustainable future for the likes of Hypex and Purifi, as they use a model much closer to the traditional one.

 

[Deleted member 72381]

But that is the point that @restorer-john made. Since they are so cheap and unserviceable, they are not worth the cost of shipping them back to China plus parts for >100% of the original cost, which means they'll end up at a landfill at the country of sale after ~2 years of use. He is for non-disposable high value electronic components, that can be restored. People are still paying high pennies for vintage audio in 2024.

All we need now is to make everyone wealthy enough to afford expensive audio gear and convince them that it's in their best interest to buy an $800 Schiit power amp that does not sound any better to them than a $150 Fosi amp.

I do not have any statistics on the average lifespan of Topping/Fosi/SMSL/etc. audio gear, but I would be shocked it was not far in excess of two years.

The "vintage" Fosi, Aiyima, SMSL are from 2022, no one is interested in those products. Their whole model of operation is unsustainable and not driven by usual market incentives.

The usual market incentives are why we have this situation. While there is an upscale market for amps like the Vidar II, most consumers are more likely to buy something for $150 and then blow the $650 savings on things like food, rent/mortgage payments, clothes for the kids, and toilet paper.

I can see a sustainable future for the likes of Hypex and Purifi, as they use a model much closer to the traditional one.

I hope that you are right, because class D amps can reach 90% efficiency, making them four times less wasteful than 60% efficient class AB amps (10% waste vs. 40% waste). Class AB amps that act as space heaters doing battle with home air conditioners isn't ideal from an environmental standpoint (though it's a big step up over class A amps).