Thanks for putting this together.
What curve tracing software did you use to digitize the plots? I've never dabbled in that area but I've often wanted something to help compare data sheet plots / ASR measurements on different scales.
Michael
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Thanks for putting this together.
What curve tracing software did you use to digitize the plots? I've never dabbled in that area but I've often wanted something to help compare data sheet plots / ASR measurements on different scales.
Michael
staticV3
Master Contributor
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I used the desktop version of WebPlotDigitizer and traced the graphs manually.
Automatic tracing works great most of the time, but not when lines overlap.
Oh and I upscaled the graphs using Cupscale with the Foolhardy Remacri model. It's a bit mind-blowing really:
Automatic tracing works great most of the time, but not when lines overlap.
Oh and I upscaled the graphs using Cupscale with the Foolhardy Remacri model. It's a bit mind-blowing really:
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What an idiotic remark. Terrible audio gear? My system is superb. It both measures and sounds phenomenal. But whatever helps you sleep at night.
BTW, "resolving" is a nonsense word as applied to audio components. Frequency response, noise, distortion and power are what matters in amplification. (The amplifier's response to varying impedance also has an influence in some cases.)
Another name for sighted personal preference.
Hand-built small batch runs happen all the time in high-end audio, Schiit just has the manufacturing efficiencies to do a small run at affordable price. They can absorb overheads in a whole lot of other products. R&D costs are probably lower than many might think because it’s probably just a couple of guys charging to that line item, and likely not full time.
Provocative name gets attention.The name of this amplifier is pronounced Sh*t tier?
...The name of this amplifier is pronounced Sh*t tier?
BTW, in old Norse, Týr is pronounced more likely "Teuurl"
Týr - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
There is no such thing as musicality. Try to explain to me what it is, and you see it's not real.
A power amp has one job, that is to amplify an input to a larger amplitude. In my point of view a power amp is nothing but a very fast, variable power supply
There is no room for musicality. Musicality, as a term like beauty or fluffyness, is created before the medium is pressed/streamed, in the recording studio, in the mixing. There we have room for creative things like that.
That is it's point, amplify the input signal at any frequency just the same. Flat frequency response is good in an amp!
Feelings, am i right?
View attachment 205126
To be honest, i have experience with neither, but could imagine it to be true.
The Tyr has a lot of power, it adds a lot more unwanted artifacts to the output, like distortion and noise than other amps, but it is able to deliver far more power than the LA90. If Magnepans need much power, maybe the LA90 isn't the best match.
+1
Oops I lied. I own a Jot R, which was like my most impressive piece of equipment ever for the price.
Yeaaaaaaaaaahhh that's grossly simplifying an amplifier. There is so much it does trying to match the reference input signal to the power output that reducing a power supply to the role of a power supply, which by the way is just a component in an amplifier, misses all of the complexity of an amp. I think that's a common problem people have here - oversimplifying audio terms and reducing concepts to black and white. I kinda did that up there by saying "musicality" which, as you pointed out, is a very loaded word. People need to understand that nothing is ever black and white in audio, and there are infinitely more variables that make some products more enjoyable than others.
Who knows, they're probably referring to dynamics, or weight of each note, or even the air between them. I think by being flat they could be referring to the sound being too lean and thin and not having enough warmth or body. Maybe it even has to do with internal clocking and pacing, or maybe they're referring to something else entirely.
If noise values are all that mattered, everybody would just go out and buy topping e30/d30 stacks and never look at another piece of audio gear ever again, and yet there exists headphone amps and dacs costing exponentially more. Hey, in fact, just use your PC's motherboard output. The manufacturer states a 126db signal/noise ratio for mine. That means it must be good right? What comes out of that PC audio port doesn't sound like music to me and has 0 musicality. There's a reason people spend more.
If you don't know what "musicality" is, maybe instead turn your tv's volume all the way up and flip to a channel with white noise. Now go to a concert. Compare the two and let me know which one sounds more like noise and which one sounds more like music to you. Since you don't understand simple concepts and like to face palm at things that go over your head, this time I'll forgive you for thinking the former sounds like music to you.
Here's a strict definition for you straight from webster:
"Musicality: the quality or state of being musical : MELODIOUSNESS"
So there you have it. Musicality is defined as that which sounds more like music.
When shopping for audio I define my maximum value on investment from my audio as: the sound output from the audio chain most closely matching the reference signal produced from the recording studio, which also happens to be what the artist intended you to hear. But that's just what I personally chase. I don't really care about noise values, and except for a select few rare occasions, I can promise you none of the cheap stuff I've ever bought in my life sounded anywhere near as musical as my expensive stuff.
Nope. Your interpretation is absolutely misleading. Musicality is not what sounds "more" like music. It's a property of music itself, certainty not sound reproduction. Unless you think gears are making music by their own... What a ridiculous statement.
You are (again) completely missing the point. You just said that you're aiming for transparency.
Alright. You just deserved a second one:
Thanks for your forgiveness, really.
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LOOOOL how did you get "gears" and the rest of that from the Webster definition? I question your ability to read. Also, "Musically" is not a word.Nope. Your interpretation is absolutely misleading. Musically is not what sounds "more" like music. It's a property of music itself, certainty not sound reproduction. Unless you think gears are making music by their own... What a ridiculous statement.
You are (again) completely missing the point. You just said that you're aiming for transparency.
Alright. You just deserved a second one:View attachment 205230
Thanks for your forgiveness, really.
DSJR
Major Contributor
Oh yes there is - and it's quite real!!! You need to be one who naturally hums and sings along with a vocalist, follows 'tunes,' melodies and harmonies in a musical piece to fully understand though. The opposite are the 'rhythm kings' who tap their feet to the rhythm and are oblivious to the harmonic or harmonious structure of the music being played...
Now, having said that, I now have an idea how 'musicality' can be 'empohasised' in the playback system and it usually means compression, band limiting and/or the phase issues these out of band filters can create, a spread of grass like distortions around 60 - 70dB down at absolute maximum and in one niche amp I recall, a VERY narrow power bandwidth which tailed off over 2khz or so...
I still use the now for me forty year old 'tune dem' techniques when hearing new gear. This 'technique' has enhanced my appreciation of live music as well, so not a blinkered audiophool thing, at least for me. All good fun and totally innocent, but please don't dismiss some of this 'stuff' out of hand
All this hasn't got nothing to do with high fidelity sound -- which is fine of you believe that high fidelity sound doesn't have much to do with musical enjoyment.Oh yes there is - and it's quite real!!! You need to be one who naturally hums and sings along with a vocalist, follows 'tunes,' melodies and harmonies in a musical piece to fully understand though. The opposite are the 'rhythm kings' who tap their feet to the rhythm and are oblivious to the harmonic or harmonious structure of the music being played...
Now, having said that, I now have an idea how 'musicality' can be 'empohasised' in the playback system and it usually means compression, band limiting and/or the phase issues these out of band filters can create, a spread of grass like distortions around 60 - 70dB down at absolute maximum and in one niche amp I recall, a VERY narrow power bandwidth which tailed off over 2khz or so...
I still use the now for me forty year old 'tune dem' techniques when hearing new gear. This 'technique' has enhanced my appreciation of live music as well, so not a blinkered audiophool thing, at least for me. All good fun and totally innocent, but please don't dismiss some of this 'stuff' out of hand
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People spend more because they have more to spend.
I agree with that statement, as will others. However you totally missed the other factor - that being you tend to get more for your money. On the flip side, it also needs to be emphasized that diminishing returns is a very real thing.
Couldn't agree more. There are harmonics and perceived frequencies that when they hit you just right makes the world of difference. I think you're still way ahead of me on pinpointing what those are. I truly wish music and audio aesthetics were a better defined science and the things you just described could be better measured, evaluated, and compared in a more ubiquitous manner than just today's sinad graphs.Oh yes there is - and it's quite real!!! You need to be one who naturally hums and sings along with a vocalist, follows 'tunes,' melodies and harmonies in a musical piece to fully understand though. The opposite are the 'rhythm kings' who tap their feet to the rhythm and are oblivious to the harmonic or harmonious structure of the music being played...
Now, having said that, I now have an idea how 'musicality' can be 'empohasised' in the playback system and it usually means compression, band limiting and/or the phase issues these out of band filters can create, a spread of grass like distortions around 60 - 70dB down at absolute maximum and in one niche amp I recall, a VERY narrow power bandwidth which tailed off over 2khz or so...
I still use the now for me forty year old 'tune dem' techniques when hearing new gear. This 'technique' has enhanced my appreciation of live music as well, so not a blinkered audiophool thing, at least for me. All good fun and totally innocent, but please don't dismiss some of this 'stuff' out of hand
I think ASR has clearly demonstrated that you don't always get more for your money, sometimes you even get less performance for more money. I think the Tyr will have a certain cool factor with the Schiit fan club. However I doubt that it would sound better, or even different, from the NAD C298 at 25% less price than a pair of Tyrs. I also doubt that it will much turn the heads of fans of pricier amps.
We do spend more for qualities that have little to do with audible performance. For instance, I own Bryston amps because I like their 20 year warranty and their build, not because it sounds appreciably better or different than my NAD C272.
I don't think that there is anything wrong with the Tyr, but spending more to simply assure better audible performance can be foolhardy.
You want those harmonics encoded on the CD, not added by an amp. What is wrong with you?
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