Schiit Tyr mono amplifier

[MakeMineVinyl]

Only 250 pairs of Tyr amps are being made?

I can't imagine why any sane manufacturer would sink money into R&D and all the other steps necessary to bring a product to market then limit the production to a set amount. The only things I can think of is that the product ended up costing far more to make than originally thought, or some critical part suddenly became unavailable.

 

[Bobo77]

Only 250 pairs of Tyr amps are being made?

I know it's a low number. Apparently, with a lot of their gear Schiit does a "run" (I found that out here). I believe Jason give the number in this video:

He talks about the Tyr like it’s a pet project….
I ordered a Loki Max over 4 months ago, and right now Schiit is giving me no hint at a delivery date. So…that is either parts supply or waiting to get enough orders to do a "run"…not sure.

 

[mdsimon2]

If the readings between the two amps come so much closer when you add in the distortion figure ( SINAD ), then would that not mean that the Tyr signal is dominated by distortion to a higher degree than the Behringer? I mean, that's the only conclusion I can come to. If indeed the Tyr ends up around 80db SINAD on a chart comparing amps, I think it's a fair assumption that to buy a $250 amp ( which measures 77db SINAD ) over a pair of amps for $3200 is something to contemplate. In my case I bought 2, and I think that power specs are going to be pretty close between a pair of A800s to a pair of Tyrs, with the added flexibility of the Behringers being 2 channel amps, bridgeable, versus monoblocks.

I hinted at this in my analysis of the Schiit AP report but to me noise is much more important than distortion as it is always present and more audible. Honestly judging an amplifier by 5W SINAD isn't very useful unless you know how much of that is noise and how much of that is distortion (unless you are in the Purifi / Benchmark tier of performance). It looks like both the A800 and the Tyr have similar THD of around -80 dB at 5 W, it's just that the A800 is starting from a much worse spot from a noise perspective. You can tell when the performance starts becoming dominated by distortion because the THD+N vs level trace deviates from the nice straight line.

Of course I agree that the A800s are a much better value than the Tyr. But if you have sensitive speakers or are particularly sensitive to noise the A800s aren't the greatest. That being said their a plenty of other much cheaper amplifiers than the Tyr with similar power output and much better noise perforamcen.

A potential problem will be if the real world measurements don't come near the companies published figures-- and currently I notice that the published noise figure is 120dB, but you guys are telling me that it's 96dB actual. That's a pretty big difference, and so if the real world power figures fall short too, the that's not good

You need to be careful when comparing SNR. The differences you mention are primarily due to weighting (Schiit is A-weighted, ASR is unweighted), bandwidth (ASR is 22 kHz, Schiit doesn't say) and level (Schiit is referenced to full output, ASR gives 5 W and full output). In general I think the ASR 5 W SNR measurements are much more useful than full output as they give you the ability to compare relative residual noise between amplifiers. Schiit does have a full power SNR measurement in the AP test report showing 119.5 dB(A) so pretty much spot on their spec, although they revised this, originally it was 125 dB(A). As another form of verification converting the 70 uV residual noise I picked off the THD+N plot and comparing to full output of sqrt(200 x 8) = 40 V gets you 20 x log (40 x 10^6 / 70) + 3 = 118 dB(A) which is pretty darn close to spec.

In general I commend Schiit for releasing an AP report backing up their specs, it's one thing to post specs, its another to back it up with manufacturer published measurements.

Michael

 

[restorer-john]

I can't imagine why any sane manufacturer would sink money into R&D and all the other steps necessary to bring a product to market then limit the production to a set amount. The only things I can think of is that the product ended up costing far more to make than originally thought, or some critical part suddenly became unavailable.

The big Japanese players did it all the time back in the day.

Marantz did 500 product runs of TOTL two box CD players. Akai did a 500 run for an entire system of 6 components. Yamaha did a very small run for their absolute TOTL Centennial Series of components in 1987. Sony did it many times over the 70s and 80s and even into the early 90s. Matsushita (Technics) did the hand built totally over the top SEA1/SUA2 pre/powers in tiny numbers.

They do it, because they can. It keeps the loyal engineers happy to have pet projects of hang the expense stuff see the light of day.

 

[restorer-john]

I hinted at this in my analysis of the Schiit AP report but to me noise is much more important than distortion as it is always present and more audible.

Some perspective. Consider the graph you are showing is THD vs level in Volts, not vs power in W.

The FTC spec requires disclosure from 250mW to rated power. 250mW into 8R corresponds to 1.41V on the plot, where the amplifier is very low in THD.

Halfway along the red part you highlighted, say at 150mV, you are only looking at a tiny ~3mW (milliwatts) of overall (noise+D) power into an 8R speaker...

 

[mdsimon2]

Some perspective. Consider the graph you are showing is THD vs level in Volts, not vs power in W.

The FTC spec requires disclosure from 250mW to rated power. 250mW into 8R corresponds to 1.41V on the plot, where the amplifier is very low in THD.

Halfway along the red part you highlighted, say at 150mV, you are only looking at a tiny ~3mW (milliwatts) of overall (noise+D) power into an 8R speaker...

Indeed, I mentioned this in my original post, that early rise in distortion is certainly a bit disappointing.

As mentioned previously it has an early rise in distortion above 0.8 V output. If/when this gets reviewed by ASR people will trash it because the 5 W in to 4 ohm (4.47 V output) SINAD looks to be just above 80 dB. As the noise performance is decent this does not bother me.

Michael

 

[staticV3]

@formertech Here's a comparison of a few Amps:

Spoiler: Sources

A800
Tyr
LA90 Mono
LA90 Stereo

 

[Turcoda]

@formertech Here's a comparison of a few Amps:
View attachment 204936View attachment 204937

Spoiler: Sources

A800
Tyr
LA90 Mono
LA90 Stereo

I dunno, but for years Topping has been chasing the best noise values with disregard to musicality. Ive seen countless posts of people finding the topping signature quite flat. I feel like theres more to it than this graph. Im willing to bet the LA90 wouldnt make Maggies sound as nice as Tyrs. I own 0 schiit products and 0 topping products, but I truly suspect this would be the case.

 

[MaxBuck]

I dunno, but for years Topping has been chasing the best noise values with disregard to musicality. Ive seen countless posts of people finding the topping signature quite flat.

Cool story, bro.

 

[Turcoda]

Cool story, bro.

You must be a bit slow to even remotely think that's a story. Totally not a story, in case you needed the help.

 

[MaxBuck]

You must be a bit slow to even remotely think that's a story. Totally not a story, in case you needed the help.

Need no help here, bro. It's a story that belongs on the "Fiction" shelf.

 

[Turcoda]

Need no help here, bro. It's a story that belongs on the "Fiction" shelf.

Sure thing. Whatever helps you sleep at night and helps you justify the thousands you spent on terrible audio gear instead of a proper education : D

 

[AudioAaron]

nc502 Hypex build offers:
more power
double the channels
half the size
half the price

Tyr offers:
free SBAF membership

 

[Turcoda]

nc502 Hypex build offers:
more power
double the channels
half the size
half the price

Tyr offers:
free SBAF membership

LOL. Fair point. However I own an 8 channel NC502 Hypex amp and I feel like its quite good, but lacking in some areas. I was on here in hopes of finding something for my Maggies that resolved a tad bit better. I have no idea if the Tyrs are better or worse. Really wish we had more reviews.

 

[TheBatsEar]

I dunno, but for years Topping has been chasing the best noise values with disregard to musicality.

There is no such thing as musicality. Try to explain to me what it is, and you see it's not real.

A power amp has one job, that is to amplify an input to a larger amplitude. In my point of view a power amp is nothing but a very fast, variable power supply

There is no room for musicality. Musicality, as a term like beauty or fluffyness, is created before the medium is pressed/streamed, in the recording studio, in the mixing. There we have room for creative things like that.

Ive seen countless posts of people finding the topping signature quite flat.

That is it's point, amplify the input signal at any frequency just the same. Flat frequency response is good in an amp!

I feel like theres more to it than this graph.

Feelings, am i right?

Im willing to bet the LA90 wouldnt make Maggies sound as nice as Tyrs.

To be honest, i have experience with neither, but could imagine it to be true.
The Tyr has a lot of power, it adds a lot more unwanted artifacts to the output, like distortion and noise than other amps, but it is able to deliver far more power than the LA90. If Magnepans need much power, maybe the LA90 isn't the best match.

I own 0 schiit products and 0 topping products, but I truly suspect this would be the case.

+1

 

[staticV3]

The Tyr has a lot of power, it adds a lot more unwanted artifacts to the output, like distortion and noise than other amps, but it is able to deliver far more power than the LA90.

The Tyr has 2.35dB higher max volume at 4Ω (see here). In terms of perceived loudness, that's an increase of about 18%.
Noticeable? Sure. Substantial? Eeh

 

[VintageFlanker]

I dunno, but for years Topping has been chasing the best noise values with disregard to musicality.

What the hell is that? Could it even been strictly difined?

 

[mdsimon2]

There is no such thing as musicality. Try to explain to me what it is, and you see it's not real.

A power amp has one job, that is to amplify an input to a larger amplitude. In my point of view a power amp is nothing but a very fast, variable power supply

Yes, exactly. If your amplifier is doing more than amplifying the input signal something is wrong. I do think it is helpful to have some objective criteria for a "good" amplifier which of course will vary a bit for every person and their specific goals. For me the baseline of "good" looks something like this:

1) Power: > 100 W x 2 in to 8 ohm, > 200 W x 2 in to 4 ohm, > 400 W x 1 in to 8 ohm, 20 Hz to 20 kHz
2) SNR: > 90 dB unweighted, 1 kHz, 5 W in to 4 ohm
3) Gain: > 19 dB, < 26 dB
4) Inputs: balanced (XLR or TRS)
5) THD+N: < 0.1% (-60 dB) at 45 kHz bandwidth, 20 Hz to 20 kHz, 250 mW to clipping
6) Frequency Response: +/- 1 dB, 20 Hz to 20 kHz, load invariant
7) Thermal Design: no fan, sufficient heatsinking to handle music at high power output

Michael

 

[TheBatsEar]

Yes, exactly. If your amplifier is doing more than amplifying the input signal something is wrong. I do think it is helpful to have some objective criteria for a "good" amplifier which of course will vary a bit for every person and their specific goals. For me the baseline of "good" looks something like this:

1) Power: > 100 W x 2 in to 8 ohm, > 200 W x 2 in to 4 ohm, > 400 W x 1 in to 8 ohm, 20 Hz to 20 kHz
2) SNR: > 90 dB unweighted, 1 kHz, 5 W in to 4 ohm
3) Gain: > 19 dB, < 26 dB
4) Inputs: balanced (XLR or TRS)
5) THD+N: < 0.1% (-60 dB) at 45 kHz bandwidth, 20 Hz to 20 kHz, 250 mW to clipping
6) Frequency Response: +/- 1 dB, 20 Hz to 20 kHz, load invariant
7) Thermal Design: no fan, sufficient heatsinking to handle music at high power output

3a) switchable gain
4a) switchable between balanced and unbalanced
8) 430mm wide, 350 to 400mm deep
9) less than 1000€

 

[mdsimon2]

3a) switchable gain
4a) switchable between balanced and unbalanced
8) 430mm wide, 350 to 400mm deep
9) less than 1000€

Like I said it will vary a bit person to person and their specific needs.

Overall I think the process of defining what you are looking for is very helpful, especially for electronics where the measurements / specifications are well defined. I'll never quite understand folks who swap gear and claim audible differences without understanding what is causing those differences but I also don't believe in magic.

Michael