Schiit Syn DAC/Preamp/HP Amp Review

[amirm]

Minidsp says it was prohibitively expensive at the small volume they do, to add Dolby processing, which is why they can only do the uncompressed format. Syn went a different route.

They must mean the latest versions with all the variations. Dolby Digital AC-3 patents have all expired and there are open source implementations for it. A cheap RPi i am sure can decode it. Or even the newer Arduinos.

I see alixpress hardware decoder with I/O that do all of that for $11! Likely use one of a number of obsolete, dedicated DD decoders.

 

[Billy Budapest]

??? They could use a DSP to decode DD just like receivers do. They would however need to also have DAC ICs for all the channels which Syn does not have. So would add some to the cost.

Sure, it is easily doable. I am just saying that such a product doesn’t exist.

 

[Audioagnostic]

Wish this was still available. Trying to find a preamp/DAC with analog inputs for a secondary system. Tough out there.

I just bought this one used for my son's first system. Getting some Klipsch sensitive speakers with it. It works, has a lot of features, no idea of the fidelity but perfect for a student housing setup.

D802C PRO Amplifier-FXAUDIO Technology Co.,Limited

FX AUDIO D802C PRO HIFI Bluetooth Stereo Amplifiers 80W 24Bit 192 kHz Class-D Full Digital Audio Amp Home Amplifier with Remote Control OLED Display Support USB Optical Coaxial Bluetooth AUX

szfxaudio.com

 

[SMen]

Sure, it is easily doable. I am just saying that such a product doesn’t exist.

Dolby Digital AC-3 patents have all expired and there are open source implementations for it. A cheap RPi i am sure can decode it.

It is an inexplicable gap in the market when you look at the high quality low cost amplification available to match - and it seems that licensing is not an obstacle - I've been looking for a decent small form factor av processor for years - even just to use with a center channel.

 

[just1n]

I just bought this one used for my son's first system. Getting some Klipsch sensitive speakers with it. It works, has a lot of features, no idea of the fidelity but perfect for a student housing setup.

D802C PRO Amplifier-FXAUDIO Technology Co.,Limited

FX AUDIO D802C PRO HIFI Bluetooth Stereo Amplifiers 80W 24Bit 192 kHz Class-D Full Digital Audio Amp Home Amplifier with Remote Control OLED Display Support USB Optical Coaxial Bluetooth AUX

szfxaudio.com

Thank you for reaching out with the suggestion. I’m now looking at the Fosi ZH3 @amirm reviewed. Somehow I missed this review.

If only this little guy had even a 5-band PEQ for bass modes. We can’t have it all…

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-zh3-balanced-headphone-amp-dac-review.65913/

 

[coolajami]

Thank you for the review!
I can see the problems upmixing stereo to 5.1 , but wouldn’t be an ideal product for a 3.1 setup? It seems there is a gap in the market for such pre-amps.

 

[john61ct]

I LOVE the SYN, happy to buy any used ones y'all may have sitting idle.

But yes, it was driven by / caters to an unusual niche philosophy.

Religiously dogmatically opposed to proprietary AVR HT multi-channel "source format" encoding schemes as well as HDMI - see https://xkcd.com/927

Paying licensing fees is I think not the issue, sticking to pure stereo-only sources is, à la the Dogme 95 movement in filmmaking.

"Syn is a stereo device, only send it stereo"


No bass management to speak of, the sub out is pretty useless, simply summed mono fixed LP 80hz.

I have an Outlaw ICBM-1 to give HPFs on the FR channels and more flexible / granular sub output including stereo subs.

It's PERFECT for both gamers and telephony heavy / Zoom-call workers wanting electret mic integration.

In line with their HEL, Fulla, Gunnr devices, but SYN being both reliably better SQ

plus ofc adding the simulated surround / "ambiance extraction / Hafler matrix circuit as implemented by Jason Stoddard" feature.

Which does not affect the main front pair when engaged and purely optional, very easy to switch on/off, back to normal audiophile 2-channel anytime.

It is not "modern HT / A/V gear" IMO it is primarily great for music, and for many tracks / albums does add a lot of "space, presence" to the image / staging.

But if you install it near a big screen, it also happens to give a huge boost to the audio side experience, without worrying about ever-evolving encoding formats, usable for a full lifetime of film watching from vanilla stereo input. Green and sustainable, not driven by obsolescence.

New Schiit SYN - Analog Surround Sound Processor

From https://www.schiit.com/products/syn Imagine surround sound that’s easy, fun, and works with everything. That’s Syn. Well, Syn is also a DAC, remote control preamp, and headphone amp as well. Oh yeah, and it won’t become a paperweight when standards change. Head exploded? That’s OK. We’ll...

audiosciencereview.com

I and many others are hoping the SYN functionality will be resurrected in Schiit's line-up one day, even if only as a sub-program embedded in a Forkbeard module.

 

[john61ct]

Wish this was still available. Trying to find a preamp/DAC with analog inputs for a secondary system. Tough out there.

Mimir is phenomenal value

 

[just1n]

Mimir is phenomenal value

Thank you, I’ll take a look at it!

 

[EJ3]

Does the sub work on 2Ch stereo?

The reason that I did not buy it: only one channel for sub-out. Two channels sub out (with either mono or stereo [or better yet, both], LPF & HPF and I would have bought it at $100-$200 more.

 

[john61ct]

Yes the SYN simply does not include useful bass management. Wye the input before it or do the xovers etc after as I described using the ICBM. IOW use the SYN for FR output only.

 

[amirm]

I can see the problems upmixing stereo to 5.1 , but wouldn’t be an ideal product for a 3.1 setup?

You would have some kind of ad-hoc generation of center channel that would most likely be subideal. With Dolby Digital, each configuration (3.1, 5.1, etc.) is approved by the content creator to sound correct. Not so when you don't have that information and you just want to deduce what should be in the center.

 

[ChrisH-CT]

I'm very pleased with my Syn, which I use in my office system. I have 4 speakers, no center, and subwoofer (aka 4.1). I use this system for music most of the time (the rest being youtube content of all sorts). I love music in surround sound and would never want to be without the expansion of sound around me.

A product that only allows Stereo upmix to 5.1., but no actual 5.1 input, is indeed a strange choice. Few people will have a 5.1 setup only for stereo sources.

I believe the reasoning is that Schiit wanted a minimalist product. An alternative to complicated surround processors, plus freedom from licensing fees that are usually necessary for decoding surround formats.

 

[ChrisH-CT]

I really enjoy what the Syn does in my system. (As I mentioned in my previous post, it's a 4.1 system). Prior to buying the Syn, I was using the "Hafler circuit" for surround sound retrieval. https://sound-au.com/project18.htm

I wanted the Syn because of the adjustments to sound balance that it provides. The 'surround' and 'image' adjustments are very useful and the latter is something that I did not have with the Hafler approach. For certain recordings, the image adjustment can really brings out details. But you have to be thoughtful with this control, as it can make some vocals and instruments too much in your face. And I've found that with if the mix has elements that are more strident sounding, it will further that character.

My front speakers are KEF LS50 Meta.

For me, the headphone amp is very disappointing. In fact, it's my least favorite part of the Syn. It does not satisfy me when driving HifiMan HE560, which are 45 ohms. I have to turn the volume to 100% and the volume is still unfulfilling (and I'm not someone who normally cranks it). That said, most headphone amps that I've tried with the 560 have been a similar disappointment. But some have been good enough to satisfy me. This one is not. But It's fine with my HD6XX.

The other notable disappointment is that like most Schiit gear, the remote is stupid and poorly labeled, and I have to keep a legend handy to remember what does what. In fact, my legend also includes all the front panel controls.

And lastly.... the Syn occasionally freaks out and gives no output and keeps cycling through the inputs. This happens most when I accidentally discharge static build-up on my body. Half the time I have to switch off the power on the Syn, in order to stop it from cycling.

But I hope my Syn keeps working, because I enjoy Synning

 

[coolajami]

You would have some kind of ad-hoc generation of center channel that would most likely be subideal. With Dolby Digital, each configuration (3.1, 5.1, etc.) is approved by the content creator to sound correct. Not so when you don't have that information and you just want to deduce what should be in the center.

Thanks for the reply. I’d kind of assumed that pulling mono from stereo to feed the centre channel would be simpler considering that Syn does give you width control for the centre channel. Clearly not the case.

 

[john61ct]

The processor only merges the content in-common between the L+R channels to get the mono center channel.

That center content is what is subtracted especially vocals, only the "difference signals" is fed to the rear surround channels.

Rear left just gets "L minus R" and surround right is "R minus L" to give a "natural ambience".

All analog sum and difference filtering, frequency shaping, phase tricks, no delays.

 

[Deleted member 88178]

I found out recently that an Australian company called "Involve Audio" offers a similar device called "Surround Master".
Not only that, there is a version of it which is called "Sinn"

Sinn Sound Box - INVOLVE AUDIO

A world-class surround sound upgrade for anyone wanting to get into surround sound without the hassle of receivers, decoders or formats, or a million wires. Simply connect in your stereo source of choice via analogue input or bluetooth, connect four speakers to the amplified outputs and prepare...

involveaudio.com

 

[ChrisH-CT]

I found out recently that an Australian company called "Involve Audio" offers a similar device called "Surround Master".
Not only that, there is a version of it which is called "Sinn"

Sinn Sound Box - INVOLVE AUDIO

A world-class surround sound upgrade for anyone wanting to get into surround sound without the hassle of receivers, decoders or formats, or a million wires. Simply connect in your stereo source of choice via analogue input or bluetooth, connect four speakers to the amplified outputs and prepare...

involveaudio.com

Very interesting! But the price is a rich at $1000. Interesting, that they included internal amplification. Surprisingly, there are internal amps for both the fronts and the rears. And they use lame spring clip speaker jacks They don't specify the amplifier power output. Thankfully, there are Pre-Outs available (mistakenly labeled line out). And I think it's silly of them to put the control for rear speaker level on the back panel. I adjust my rear speaker level often (depending on the recording). The Sinn unit does not have center channel support, or an adjustment for front speaker image (like the Syn).

The other unit they offer, that's actually more similar to the Syn, is the Surround Master. Like the Syn, it has no amplification, and supports center channel for those that care about it. (I'm not using a center with my Syn). The price for that one is $700.

Surround Master V3 - INVOLVE AUDIO

involveaudio.com

 

[EJ3]

I found out recently that an Australian company called "Involve Audio" offers a similar device called "Surround Master".
Not only that, there is a version of it which is called "Sinn"

Sinn Sound Box - INVOLVE AUDIO

A world-class surround sound upgrade for anyone wanting to get into surround sound without the hassle of receivers, decoders or formats, or a million wires. Simply connect in your stereo source of choice via analogue input or bluetooth, connect four speakers to the amplified outputs and prepare...

involveaudio.com

But it's MUCH more INVOLVEd, with patented technology (which is why I am saving up the money for it):

Taken from their website:

Involve Decode​

True Surround Sound from all Stereo sources​

Involve Decode is a patented universal surround sound decode technology that decodes any stereo source. This means listeners using a system with Involve Decode™ installed experience a fully enveloping surround sound from all existing stereo formats, from CD & DVD to radio & TV, to the internet, with no fear of incompatibility with current stereo and surround equipment.

Involve Decode can be implemented in any device, such as an A/V receiver, TV, car head unit, mixing desk, wi-fi media player or any other audio device. For current systems and installations an Involve Decode unit can be connected to output surround sound.

& it has many ways to operate

Very interesting! But the price is a rich at $1000. Interesting, that they included internal amplification. Surprisingly, there are internal amps for both the fronts and the rears. And they use lame spring clip speaker jacks They don't specify the amplifier power output. Thankfully, there are Pre-Outs available (mistakenly labeled line out). And I think it's silly of them to put the control for rear speaker level on the back panel. I adjust my rear speaker level often (depending on the recording). The Sinn unit does not have center channel support, or an adjustment for front speaker image (like the Syn).

The other unit they offer, that's actually more similar to the Syn, is the Surround Master. Like the Syn, it has no amplification, and supports center channel for those that care about it. (I'm not using a center with my Syn). The price for that one is $700.

Surround Master V3 - INVOLVE AUDIO

involveaudio.com

(Also taken from their website):
The Sinn Sound Box, a collaboration between Involve Audio and Sinn Sound, utilizes the power of the Involve decode to enhance, separate and enliven any stereo source, combined with award-winning design philosophies and a user-focused interface to bring world-class surround sound to more people. It features touch controls and Bluetooth with NFC pairing, as well as analog input. The striking design won the Gold standard award at the 2020 Melbourne Design Awards.

Also built in are four capable Class-D amplifiers with soft clipping technology, so you can simply connect four of your favorite speakers and you're ready to go, no complicated receiver required. Or if you prefer, you can connect the pre-outs to your existing amp and speaker setup - it's an upgrade to any system.

The system decodes from any stereo input - Vinyl, CD, Tape, Streaming etc.

Any content you can think of will be suddenly there with you in your listening space. Live concerts will make you feel like you're in the audience, with the crowd cheering around you. Movies will engulf you and make you feel like you're part of the narrative.

Music you thought you knew will suddenly unfold itself around you and make you fall in love with your favourite tunes again, as if hearing them for the first time.

Get in touch about Involve Decode

 

[Deleted member 88178]

Very interesting! But the price is a rich at $1000. Interesting, that they included internal amplification. Surprisingly, there are internal amps for both the fronts and the rears. And they use lame spring clip speaker jacks They don't specify the amplifier power output. Thankfully, there are Pre-Outs available (mistakenly labeled line out). And I think it's silly of them to put the control for rear speaker level on the back panel. I adjust my rear speaker level often (depending on the recording). The Sinn unit does not have center channel support, or an adjustment for front speaker image (like the Syn).

The other unit they offer, that's actually more similar to the Syn, is the Surround Master. Like the Syn, it has no amplification, and supports center channel for those that care about it. (I'm not using a center with my Syn). The price for that one is $700.

Surround Master V3 - INVOLVE AUDIO

involveaudio.com

They have been around for a while now, long before Schiit Audio produced the "Sinn" EDIT: Syn