I may follow your course of action. warranty being two years I've got some 8 months left.
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Schiit Skoll Balanced Phono Stage Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Here’s the Skoll balanced into my RME
Here’s my MF MX-VYNL balanced in
Here’s my MF MX-VYNL balanced in
I have a piece of their earlier gear, it's not great but it does what it is supposed to do. They lost sight of the ball on this piece of gear, I guess.
Most companies companies have had something that wasn't up to par. I guess that this is their piece like that.
Schitt happens
soundofsilence
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So it looks like this is basically the best phono you can get, from what we have measured. I am currently building a vinyl setup and intend to use the Technics 1210GR2, AT33PTG/II and this. Anyone got any wisdom to share on that proposal? Much appreciated!
ban25
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Uh....read the posts above perhaps?
I’d suggest checking out the Parks Audio Waxwing
Digital1955
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Schiit seem to revise certain products pretty quickly. I can't keep track of their headphone amps (which I own). I don't know what the design oversight was here, but I'm hoping for a Skoll V2 with the same form factor where its all perfect. I'm ready and waiting.
Not only do they need to address the noise pickup, but they need to fix the gain settings. Most companies optimize the gain settings for single ended cables, and let the balanced outputs go 6dB over the single ended, not the other way around. I forget if there was some question on the rumble filter (which I don't use), or if that was another phono amp. [edit: as shown by Amir, the rumble filter starts rolling off at 200Hz, so I would also add that to the redesign list as well]
Not only do they need to address the noise pickup, but they need to fix the gain settings. Most companies optimize the gain settings for single ended cables, and let the balanced outputs go 6dB over the single ended, not the other way around. I forget if there was some question on the rumble filter (which I don't use), or if that was another phono amp. [edit: as shown by Amir, the rumble filter starts rolling off at 200Hz, so I would also add that to the redesign list as well]
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Form factor is great. Remote+++, capacitance adjustments+++, gain flexibility, two inputs+++, balanced capabilities in/out (not absolutely necessary but nice to have), reasonable price considering total package.
Low pass rolling off that high is useless for me and the noise level and imbalance of it is unhygienic. They try to hide behind the fact that phono preamps will produce a somewhat higher level of noise versus digital gear.
JSG1469
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Well, I just received an email from Schitt saying that all testing and measurements came back within their spec tolerance but did not include any of the testing results. They sent tracking and said they were including some shorting caps. They said they would be posting a video in the next 2 weeks explaining to their buyers the difference between a buzz and a hum. I definitely know the difference. Since I sent the Skoll in for testing I've tried my system with 3 separate phono preamps. The original Fosi Box, my Rotel RC-1570 built-in phono stage, and the new Fosi Box 5 which I just purchased (and is fantastic)and all 3 are dead silent. Not a buzz, hum, or nothing. All using the exact same cables and placement I used with the Skoll. It's crazy and I know I'm not losing my mind. I hope to find test measurements with the return, but not gonna hold my breath and after the last shotgun of emails with them, don't really have the fight to continue. It's left a bad taste in my mouth and that will be my one and only Schiit purchase.
ban25
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Crazy. All they have to do is look at post #322 to see the problem. But if they admitted the issue, they'd probably have to RMA most of the units they sold, and they probably can't afford that. So they just pretend "everything is in spec."
Thanks for updating your status disappointing as it is. Schitt has a somewhat checkered past releasing some clinkers along the way. They do have some good products I guess too. They throw s*** on the wall and see what sticks.The fanboi’s lap it up…
Too bad, this could have have been a killer product. Maybe they’ll revise it or redesign a V2. Doesn’t help current owners though.
Edit* for grammar
Schitt has passed on to a new version and also offering new tube phono pre. I’ll leave you to find them on your own.
In their info regarding the new version of the Skoll was this link:
I actually think this AP report is from our version (considering the date 10/6/23). Here is a grab of the first test using balanced in, @40dB, 20 Ohm impedance.
Lots of crap/noise and variability l/r from 60Hz up. The signal was a 1kHz sine. Run at a 20 Ohm source impedance isn’t representative of the source impedance of various mm or mi cartridges but I’m unsure in what way it may change the noise levels. 20 Ohm is in the MC realm which won’t typically be run with 40dB gain. Amir’s plot is run with 5mV input, 50 Ohm source impedance .The Schitty plot is run at 38.0mVrms. Both plots are 32k FFT.
There is quite a difference in DC between the channels
Perhaps some our EE types have commentary?
In their info regarding the new version of the Skoll was this link:
I actually think this AP report is from our version (considering the date 10/6/23). Here is a grab of the first test using balanced in, @40dB, 20 Ohm impedance.
Lots of crap/noise and variability l/r from 60Hz up. The signal was a 1kHz sine. Run at a 20 Ohm source impedance isn’t representative of the source impedance of various mm or mi cartridges but I’m unsure in what way it may change the noise levels. 20 Ohm is in the MC realm which won’t typically be run with 40dB gain. Amir’s plot is run with 5mV input, 50 Ohm source impedance .The Schitty plot is run at 38.0mVrms. Both plots are 32k FFT.
There is quite a difference in DC between the channels
Perhaps some our EE types have commentary?
So, the question I have is: seeing that the addition of Forkbeard to the new Skoll almost certainly required a new PCB, did Schiit attempt to address the L-ch noise problem reported by many with the original version of Skoll? I would think that is likely so but in the absence of any word from Schiit (even if to say in some form, 'we tried') or without independent user reviews of the new Skoll F, this product is in limbo (if not purgatory) for me.
I'm actively in the market for a balanced in/out phono pre. I'm a motivated buyer. The Skoll fits the bill on paper. But I just can't go there while this issue is hanging around. I'm probably not the only one.
Disclaimer: I'm a fan of Schiit. I like and believe in what they do and why. I own other Schiit and I'm looking at adding more Schiit to replace pieces in my system that aren't Schiit in the full hope and expectation of having even better Schiit as a result.
I'm actively in the market for a balanced in/out phono pre. I'm a motivated buyer. The Skoll fits the bill on paper. But I just can't go there while this issue is hanging around. I'm probably not the only one.
Disclaimer: I'm a fan of Schiit. I like and believe in what they do and why. I own other Schiit and I'm looking at adding more Schiit to replace pieces in my system that aren't Schiit in the full hope and expectation of having even better Schiit as a result.
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4D_Coaxial_Cube
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For Schiits and giggles I asked the AI if the F version is the same with Forkbeard, and the answer was yes. I dont expect for them to allow their AI to expose a fault that they havent address as of yet, though. They *could* have addressed the issue with the addition of Forkbeard, but there is no way we will know unless they first acknowledge the issue with the original Skoll.
I too am a fan of Schiit to some degree, but honestly, its realllllly a blithe on their company to have this issue be discussed for so long in this thread and know they have reps on deck for this site and havent stepped up. We all love the verification of independent analysis to confirm the marketing claims, but whenever tests are ran and problems present and you have a choice to buy a product that shows good results from third party testing... its still disheartening to know the company making the gear may have a history of not addressing obvious faults.
A company that produces equipment and makes claims needs to stand behind those claims, and if there is an issue where something was materially produced with faults then the company at fault should be working diligently to fix the problem. I get it, it costs money to fix the problem, but dont people pay for the products with their money? People should be getting the performance advertised and nothing less. Anything less is false advertisement. Not acknowledging the issue is very advantageous and leads me to believe that Schiit has determined it would rather retain the profits and cut the losses over the minority amount of people that know it exists and will cease doing business with them over such shady practices. A couple of comments up someone mentioned being done with Schiit, and I am sure others have as well... perhaps it will remain a small thing, or it could get bigger. Who knows how many people will decide they will never buy another piece of Schiit over such.
It really sucks we will never know if the new Skoll F has had the left channel noise issue remedied.... I would have been willing to buy one if they would come out of their hidey hole on the problem. Owell, their loss.
Lo and behold…
A new APx specific report for the F version appeared a day or two after I posted the now discontinued one’s report:
Still has what I consider excessive noise but appears to be less than the non F. That said, the fact that some people have/had noise issues where others had had less noticeable impact is concerning. What variability can/might affect the new F version as well? Could this APx be a cherry picked sample? Not suggesting it is. I am guessing the new AP got posted quickly as a result of the discussion in this thread possibly.
Bottom line if you check out other phonostage reviews here I don’t think you’ll see the same amount of Schitt in the plots between the ever present 60Hz (50Hz) and the 1kHz test tone.
IIRC, Jason S mentioned in another forum that he needed to get around to posting the new test results for the F shortly after it was announced. So, no, I don't think there's a 'conspiracy' there nor a hand-picked test result, just a coincidence of timing. From what I've seen, Schiit tends to the side of brutally frank rather than obfuscatory. For example, if a product measures poorly or runs hot, they say so up front - even to the point of inviting you to look elsewhere if you find the numbers/performance bothersome. I appreciate that level of candor.
Digital1955
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That FFT provided look normal / good If you look at other results tested here at ASR, at these high gain levels, some 60Hz + harmonics noise seems almost unavoidable.
I think the problem with the original Skoll was it was ok in a lab environment, without any ground loops or noise (and probably in balanced IN/OUT), but it really seemed to fall apart in the real world (more than likely being operated all singled ended IN/OUT).
Probably what made it stand out and be noticeable as a problem was that the left channel was more suspectable and you'd have a large noise imbalance.
I would expect they would not call out trying to address those problems in the new version, because that would be an admission of fault in the original product.
I'm guessing forkbeard is just a diversion around addressing the shortcomings in the original version.
To @amirm if he tests the new version, I hope he'll consider testing the SE connections, and use the 50dB setting for the 5mV test, because that will probably be the gain setting SE needed to produce the ~44dB of overall gain most would need for a MM to produce the appropriate output level.
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