Schiit Saga Grounding and Hum Issues?

[LuckyLuke575]

Schiit's procedure to ground the chassis is not with a wire. You don't have any evidence that the thing is not grounded. All you got is somebody reporting a hum. You also don't know what's causing the hum. Wouldn't you want to get a reading first to confirm lack of grounding before putting alarmist headlines? I think that's being a little unfair to the manufacturer.

Edit: Later in the thread I found out from Amir;s post that a multimeter was used to test grounding and it showed that it wasn't. Also that a picture of the multimeter test was sent to Schiit. I haven't seen a picture, but I withdraw my objections and agree that the case is not grounded.

Thanks for 'coming clean' as it were, because I started reading at the beginning of the thread.

 

[SamS_]

Hey Sam,

I initially had buzzing issue on my new Saga+ but I've since fixed it. I use a UK 3-Pin socket and it's 230V 50Hz here. There is still a low level hum but no more annoying buzz. I scraped off the paint with screwdriver and grounded the IEC Mains Socket to the case.

Follow Amir's guide posted in a different thread for more info and pictures:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/schiit-saga-grounding-and-hum-issues.4737/

Thanks for the encouragement @WHO23 , there is still hope i see. You said you had this buzzing issue even after the amp was switched off? I noticed that mine does that and it only stops when I take the power cord out (230V, 50Hz). I’ll tear this unit down and document it when I have the time. I have a “lab” in the basement where I work and most of my electronics gear is there.

@amirm
I was thinking of relocating the PSU part out of current chassis and into a new one. Then feed the Saga with pure, clean and regulated DC. I love the way they made the volume control, I like the form factor of the chassis and the fact that I does have two outputs so I can finally use my headphone amp. This is what I would like to retain, otherwise I’m thinking this as sunken cost of this hobby. As it is now the preamp is 10€ worth of scrap parts (not 400€+ they are asking for it).

@solderdude
I live in Finland. We had the whole house rewired last year when we made a big renovation to our house. I had a dedicated power line installed to my Hifi So the grounding is up to par. The buzz comes for the speakers.

This is measured with my phone about 20cm away from my speakers (Monitor Audio Silver 100) as baseline noise my tube amp makes at full volume (fully modded Yaqin MC-10L P-P EL34 that was to be turned into a power amp a bit later)...

This with Saga selected and running (also there is a loud “Pop!” when I turn the switch on Saga but it doesn’t show in this.

Granted, this is a very crude measurement done with my phone using iAnalyzerLite on iPhone 7 but it doe show the issue of elevated noise floor and what I think a PSU harmonics.

 

[solderdude]

I suspect relocating the transformer out of the way isn't going to help.

Grounding of the metal case, tube itself picking up magenetic fields or common mode current issues may be the cause.

 

[SamS_]

I suspect relocating the transformer out of the way isn't going to help.

Grounding of the metal case, tube itself picking up magenetic fields or common mode current issues may be the cause.

Well. I did do some work on the lid of the chassis (brushed the paint off from the lid and the base) and it did established the grounding connection for the lid. But the buzz is still there. How would one go about eliminating common mode currents or do I just have to bite the bullet and make it a completely passive pre with a new PCB and forget the remote. Or does someone want to buy this to tinker with it?

//Sam

 

[solderdude]

to find out if it is a magnetic field thing connect it to the power amp only (and mains) and pick it up from the table moving it away from the rest of the gear.

If the hum gets smaller it's magnetic induced.

When touching the cabinet or RCA shields lowers the hum it may be a grounding issue.

When eveything but the output is disconnected (aside from the power of course) does the hum vary when the volume is varied ?

When disconnecting the outputs of the Saga does the mum disappear ?

Put some alumium foil around the RCA cable contacts of the equipment connected to the output of the saga.
Is there no hum ?
Connect the aluminium foiled connector to the RCA screen of the SAGA output contacts.
Still no hum ? When there is now hum disconnect the mains connector fro the SAGA... hum now gone ?

You can repeat this without the aluminium foil on the connector while ensuring the centerpin of the RCA cable does not touch anything.
When you only connect the screen of RCA cable to the RCA shield of the Saga... is there hum or unchanged ?
When there is hum disconnect the Saga from mains.

 

[SamS_]

@solderdude
Thank you! I shall try these steps. This is very helpful and friendly forum. I do find my way around THT components and tube gear but SMD and solid state gear is unknown territory for me in troubleshooting and repair terms.

 

[direstraitsfan98]

Hey SamS_, from my experience a hum or buzzing is usually an interconnect issue. If it's a grounding problem you'll usually hear something coming from the woofer, should be a 60hz hum. Do your best to ensure your interconnects aren't touching your other cables or power cords, and worst case scenario purchase some shielded interconnects. Or just use balanced.

 

[AndreasT]

I have had the Saga since May I think.
I really like it. In my system it feeds a Vidar Amp.
However three days ago I noticed a hum coming out of my speakers. The strange thing is it wasn't there before.
Rather audible and annoying. Trying to come to the root of the problem I changed interconnects, power cables etc. and came to the conclusion it is my Saga.
What I noticed, the hum is there while the Saga powers up and turning the volume nob changes nothing. However when it is powered up and ready to go the hum vanishes, when turning the volume nob to maximum.
Going down one click the hum is back.
Can this also be a grounding issue?
Touching the chassis does no difference. Neither touching the RCA outputs makes a difference.
I am just wondering if others have noticed the same as me. I am a bit reluctant of doctoring about on the Saga before knowing if my hum will go away.

 

[amirm]

Use a multimeter to check to see if the case is connected to the RCA outputs/grounding safety wire in IEC terminal. You don't need to open it to test it. If it is not grounded, it should be fixed regardless.

 

[watchnerd]

I have had the Saga since May I think.
I really like it. In my system it feeds a Vidar Amp.
However three days ago I noticed a hum coming out of my speakers. The strange thing is it wasn't there before.
Rather audible and annoying. Trying to come to the root of the problem I changed interconnects, power cables etc. and came to the conclusion it is my Saga.
What I noticed, the hum is there while the Saga powers up and turning the volume nob changes nothing. However when it is powered up and ready to go the hum vanishes, when turning the volume nob to maximum.
Going down one click the hum is back.
Can this also be a grounding issue?
Touching the chassis does no difference. Neither touching the RCA outputs makes a difference.
I am just wondering if others have noticed the same as me. I am a bit reluctant of doctoring about on the Saga before knowing if my hum will go away.

Do you have the regular Saga or the one with the tube?

 

[AndreasT]

Well the screws holding the case show they are connected to ground. So basically if I understood this all correctly, it is only a possible issue if there is paint/coating between the case and the screw holding it.
I have version 1.1, the original so to say.

 

[amirm]

Follow the instructions here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...otunheim-headphone-amplifier.3733/#post-89406 Screw is not enough.

 

[AndreasT]

I have tried a number of things with my Saga. If I may share it.
In addition what I tried before I was under the impression when I changed the phase of the Saga, i.e. turning the plug, the buzz seemed to less. But I am not really sure.
So I opened the Saga and to my annoyance one screw was overturned and the thread was schredded. As a result it took me ages to get the thing opened.
Anyway I attached a grounding cable to the IEC pin and attached it to the chassis where the lid joins with the side and where a screw goes in. Removing the paint beforehand. Not a perfect permanent solution but just a test.
The buzz is there. The only thing which seemed to have changed is that before doing this the bhum went away when the volume was at maximum. Now the hum is the quitest when the volume is half way.
So I tried one more thing. My whole system is plugged into one power strip except for the Saga. That I put into another power strip which however comes out of the same wall socket. It is a double wall socket.
Now the hum is as good as gone except in one speaker I can hear it ever so slightly.

 

[Bonky]

Just joined...
...I have a Schiit Saga v1. there is continuity between the earth pin and the chassis and outside of the RCA sockets. However, there is no wire on the inside of the unit between the earth pin and anywhere on the chassis.

The (UK) mains cable has the earth lead disconnected. All earthing or grounding is between the various leads between the amp (valve) and the Saga. I hope this meets with approval.

 

[amirm]

Hard to say. We debated if this product is qualified to be considered double insulated (and hence not have earth connection).

 

[Bonky]

Thanks Amir.

 

[DeNyss]

Hi. Recently I had a need to tear down Saga S and Asgard 3 so took a chance to take pictures of grounding spots in their chassis for those who might be interested:

Saga S:

Asgard 3:

 

[win]

Is it just the lighting or is the saga's completely painted?

 

[DeNyss]

I think the bottom chassis part is made from steel, so yes - completely painted with the exception of this small grounding spot.

 

[win]

I think the bottom chassis part is made from steel, so yes - completely painted with the exception of this small grounding spot.

Sorry, I meant is that grounding spot painted? Compared to your Asgard picture it appears that way.