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Schiit Modius Balanced DAC Review

solderdude

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Every decision we make in our lives can be made on faulty assumptions or flawed logic and potentially self defeating and perhaps, in some rare cases, even injurious to others. Driving drunk could be one of those.

But is buying Schiit objectively flawed, self-defeating and injurous to others ? Or buying certain things local or domestic ? Are those your worries ?
Should this really be debated on AudioScienceReview ?

Un-knot yourself and lets talk about the Modius instead.
 
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Dana reed

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For me, I already find Bluetooth to be audibly transparent so from a sound quality standpoint I am not really thinking there is room to improve. Not that I buy for short term use typically, but I think down the road when the M400 becomes more affordable I will grab that, in the meantime the SMSL M200 will do. I really, really, really hope that Schiit see the writing on the wall and make Bluetooth available, even as an option for their DACs. I owned the original Gungnir, Asgard 2 and a Valhalla so I do like Schiit stuff. I am even more likely to support them again now that Amir's holding their feet to the fire has worked and the engineering has improved. For those who don't care about Bluetooth this I suspect is going to be an amazing DAC.
yeah, with good bluetooth, I'd probably be hard pressed to hear the difference. The thing I don't like is the dropouts and limited range. I already paid for Roon, and being able to hit multiple zone endpoints without worrying about my phone going out of range is worth it. using the phone as the remote control for playback is the best, but having the phone be the endpoint, even on wifi/airplay, is a drag, with notifications, dropouts, etc.
 

EchoChamber

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It is always funny with any product that there is always some 'feature' missing for some of the buyers but another product will have too many features for other buyers. I've looked at DACs before and thought "that looks great but why am I paying for a volume control when I don't need it" or "leave out the headphone amp and make the rest better"

It is very smart of them to offer a wide range of products rather then trying to make every product please everyone.
Otherwise you end up like Scion where people bought them because they were quirky, reasonably priced, little cars and then said "I only wish they had more room and more power". So Toyota made the Scions bigger and more powerful and the same customers went "Um, that isn't a Scion anymore, no thank you"
Market research is often flawed because customers don’t always know what they want and often can’t envision the future. And will try to please the interviewer or answer in a way they think is the best or the coolest. Actual data on the other hand is much more meaningful but requires more effort from the product team. Trial and error - put a couple well thought out and tested variables out and see which one is more popular.
 

A Surfer

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yeah, with good bluetooth, I'd probably be hard pressed to hear the difference. The thing I don't like is the dropouts and limited range. I already paid for Roon, and being able to hit multiple zone endpoints without worrying about my phone going out of range is worth it. using the phone as the remote control for playback is the best, but having the phone be the endpoint, even on wifi/airplay, is a drag, with notifications, dropouts, etc.
I agree about the fact that using a phone as a source does have limitations such as you mentioned. I never have issues with dropouts mind you, and range seems typically pretty darn solid. I wonder if putting your phone on do not disturb is all that is needed to block out notifications from interrupting music streaming? If not, frankly all I will do is once my current contract for my LG G7 is paid off, rather than sell the G7 I will keep it as a streaming source and simply get another phone. Normally I sell my phone once the contract is paid off, but frankly for the few hundred dollars if I can afford the loss at the time I'll just keep the G7. Makes a great DAP.
 

dfuller

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My Modius showed up today, and after I finished building a couple new XLR cables, I hooked it up.

Plug-and-play, which is great.

Subjective listening says it's really transparent and gets right out of the way of music, but with a slight brightness to it (which could be my fairly bright Focal Shape 65s). Overall, for $230 after shipping and tax, I'm a fan.

The only thing I'd like that this doesn't have is an ASIO driver, but that's not really a huge issue as I'll be using this as my monitor output DAC via AES when my ADI-2 Pro shows up (and using the RME's analog i/o for an analog hardware loop).
 
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A Surfer

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My Modius showed up today, and after I finished building a couple new XLR cables, I hooked it up.

Plug-and-play, which is great.

Subjective listening says it's really transparent and gets right out of the way of music, but with a slight brightness to it (which could be my fairly bright Focal Shape 65s). Overall, for $230 after shipping and tax, I'm a fan.

The only thing I'd like that this doesn't have is an ASIO driver, but that's not really a huge issue as I'll be using this as my monitor output DAC via when my ADI-2 Pro shows up (and using the RME's analog i/o for an analog hardware loop).
Pretty sure that WASAPI is universally considered the way to go rather than ASIO which is notoriously finicky. Is there a reason that you opt for ASIO as first choice? Just curious.
 

Matias

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Pretty sure that WASAPI is universally considered the way to go rather than ASIO which is notoriously finicky. Is there a reason that you opt for ASIO as first choice? Just curious.
Both should be bit perfect and transparent, in theory. ASIO came first in a time when Windows was messing with the audio and the studio people needed to get bit perfect, multiple channels of input/output and higher sample rates. Since then Windows improved its audio pipeline and is now USB Audio Class 2 compliant (UAC2) so that most DACs will work plug and play.

For convenience reasons Schiit went with the "UAC2 only" way, which imo is clever but not for technical reasons (think thousands of units sold and customers on the phone or e-mails asking where to download and issues when installing drivers etc).
 
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dfuller

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Pretty sure that WASAPI is universally considered the way to go rather than ASIO which is notoriously finicky. Is there a reason that you opt for ASIO as first choice? Just curious.
A fair amount of pro audio software (including my DAW of choice, Pro Tools) only works with ASIO - WASAPI is still not great for low latency.
 

Matias

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A fair amount of pro audio software (including my DAW of choice, Pro Tools) only works with ASIO - WASAPI is still not great for low latency.
Would ASIO4ALL work with Modius in a low latency?
 

Rusty Shackleford

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When you buy American only, you are engaging in protectionism. You are protecting American manufacturers from competition. Which means that they have less pressure to innovate and be efficient, which means that they become less competitive, which means eventually they go out of business or you end up subsidising inefficiency or outdated tech, which ultimately does the US and its people no good. Let the US exit this relatively low tech niche and focus on high value added, high wage technology. The path to hell is paved with good intentions. You are not doing anyone any favors ultimately. Sorry to burst your populist bubble.

Considering that trade policies, monetary policy, and random fluctuations in exchange rates all impact the above (none of which are within the control of any individual manufacturer), your argument is simplistic and misinformed.

The U.S.’s desire to win the Cold War, for example, involved purposely providing over-generous trade terms to western allies, which hurt domestic manufacturing. Likewise, the Volcker Shock, which was about crushing inflation, also hurt domestic manufacturers. Today, U.S. tech and pharma IP, not manufacturing, tends to drive trade policy.

There’s no such thing as neutral trade policy. It’s all politics and fluctuations in key, but unrelated, economic indicators. Very few companies, and certainly not ones as small as Schiit, can bend these policies to their will.

Moreover, “protectionism” (insofar as it‘s a valuable term at all) applies to government policy, not to individual consumers’ decisions. That’s just personal values and preference.

ADDENDUM: I wrote this before seeing Amir’s comment above. But, as an economic historian, I feel this is worth noting. If we’re going to throw around “flawed logic” claims, we at least need to call out when such claims are themselves based on over-simplicity or ignorance.
 

dfuller

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Would ASIO4ALL work with Modius in a low latency?
Maybe? But ASIO4ALL is also incredibly janky, even as ASIO goes. No, once my ADI-2 Pro shows up I'll be hooking the Modius up to it via AES.
 

Angsty

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When you buy American only, you are engaging in protectionism. You are protecting American manufacturers from competition. ... Sorry to burst your populist bubble.

I think @Asylum Seeker needs to go back and read my posting again. I do not buy “American only”; I gave several examples contrary to that point. I did not argue for protectionism; I argued for personal investment in domestic industries with competitive products.

I have worked with small manufacturing businesses. Every one I have worked with has found a stable domestic audience to be essential to surviving global trade fluctuations. Given that the revenue of most high-end audio firms tends to be a few million a year or less, every customer counts if you really do like their products.

I do think this topic is relevant to the Modius, if not to audio science per se. If you like their products and you don’t want to see them go out of business, buy the products. Great products are not always a guarantee of great sales and our small audio businesses do depend on you for survival, especially in times like these.

Addendum: Per Amir’s request, this will be my last retort along these lines.
 
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amirm

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Would ASIO4ALL work with Modius in a low latency?
As I noted in the review, it is causing problems with this DAC, truncating to 16 bits so. So no, you should not use it with that.
 

MichaelP

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I also run a two channel system and headphones (HiFi Man Edition X V2, Pioneer SE Monitor 5, Klipsch HP-3, Verum One) and for certain headphone listening will reveal quite a bit more detail. It is the nature of the beast as essentially you are strapping a pair of speakers to your ears! I have some pretty nice speakers and they are driven quite well, but even though they are setup nicely in a nearfield listening environment they still can't bring the level of detail out that headphones can. Assuming of course that the headphone is driven adequately and itself capable of good audio reproduction.

Totally agree. Having speakers less than an inch from yours ears removes so many variables. I'm kind of annoyed my 2-channel system can't resolve the differences though. I've got a couple Hypex NCore 400 based amps incoming. Maybe the weak link in my system is the Parasound A23.
 

A Surfer

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Totally agree. Having speakers less than an inch from yours ears removes so many variables. I'm kind of annoyed my 2-channel system can't resolve the differences though. I've got a couple Hypex NCore 400 based amps incoming. Maybe the weak link in my system is the Parasound A23.
I would be shocked if there is much that you can do to really make a speaker system as resolving as a really good headphone. I suspect if you turn up the volume more during speaker listening you may hear some of the details not as obvious at lower volumes, but you then are of course dealing with room effects. There is a lovely Holly Cole song that I use for evaluating gear - One Trick Pony off of the album Romantically Hopeless. At the beginning there are some light ride cymbal strikes that through pretty much any competent headphone sound pretty clear and distinct, but with speakers, they are quite a bit less clear and come across as buried in the mix. Saying that, I still prefer speaker listening for what it offers that headphones don't so horses for courses as they say right?
 

elchupahueso

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I've been needing to upgrade my DAC for awhile now and I pulled the trigger on this guy. (Musical Fidelity A324 DAC for reference. Hooked up by way of an optical cable from my computer.) I can't say that there was a night/day difference between the two DACs, but the Modius was more pleasing to the ear, FOR ME. If I was listening to excellent recordings, it was never an issue. However there was one particularly troublesome album for me, Korpiklaani - Spirit of the Forrest. Previously there was some sort of resonant frequency in the low end that was really harsh and i couldn't even finish the first song. I did not have that issue with the Modius. (Consequently the only difference between the two setups was the MF A324 was hooked into the wall, and the Modius was powered by USB. Which when i tried hooking it up by way of USB I found out the Modius doesn't support Win 7, so optical it is for the time being) I regret NOTHING about this purchase since everything i've thrown at it thus far has sounded great. I'm really excited to get out my old headphone setup and get it hooked in to see whats what. (Sony CD-3000 headphones and a hand built PPA based amplifier with the diamond buffers. Yeah, old setup I know.)
 

EchoChamber

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Totally agree. Having speakers less than an inch from yours ears removes so many variables. I'm kind of annoyed my 2-channel system can't resolve the differences though. I've got a couple Hypex NCore 400 based amps incoming. Maybe the weak link in my system is the Parasound A23.
The NCore 400 are really good, I think it will bring in a new level of transparency to your speaker system. IME, keeping the system minimal, and having good speakers is essential.
 

A Surfer

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The NCore 400 are really good, I think it will bring in a new level of transparency to your speaker system. IME, keeping the system minimal, and having good speakers is essential.
Absolutely the speakers are the key, and I totally agree that often less is more in terms of the chain. Saying that I have had several decent speakers and they can never provide the hyper resolution of a good headphone, but really, that is to be expected isn't it? I am sure if you listen to incredible speakers driven by insane components in an accoustically corrected room at adequate spl you may be able to achieve the same kind of resolution as with say a well driven HD800s or a Focal Utopia, but you will need an insane kit to pull it off.
 

MichaelP

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I would be shocked if there is much that you can do to really make a speaker system as resolving as a really good headphone. I suspect if you turn up the volume more during speaker listening you may hear some of the details not as obvious at lower volumes, but you then are of course dealing with room effects. There is a lovely Holly Cole song that I use for evaluating gear - One Trick Pony off of the album Romantically Hopeless. At the beginning there are some light ride cymbal strikes that through pretty much any competent headphone sound pretty clear and distinct, but with speakers, they are quite a bit less clear and come across as buried in the mix. Saying that, I still prefer speaker listening for what it offers that headphones don't so horses for courses as they say right?

That's a great test track. Really well recorded. Thanks for sharing. I am hearing a little more room reverb on her vocals with the Modius vs the Node 2i. Sounds great. The difference is so subtle though.

What is a little less subtle is how well the Modius handles lower bit-rate streams. Listening to BBC Radio 6 at the moment. Sounds excellent.
 
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