Schiit Modi 5 released - Now with Mesh filter?

[aagstn]

I noticed that Schiit has released the Modi 5 for $150. It appears they still refuse to support DSD, but the new DAC does support their Mesh filter.
"All of our True Multibit or Multiform DACs have used our own proprietary digital filter, developed through decades of R&D. Mesh brings this unique digital filter to a much more affordable price point, by meshing (ahem) a 32-bit Microchip processor with a standard delta-sigma modulator. The result? Something that sounds a lot more like our more expensive DACs."

Has there been any measurements of this filter? I'm wondering what this filter could possibly do that would make it better than a sharp roll-off filter. My thought is this filter will be impossible to detect in a blind test compared to a standard filter, but it did make me curious. Especially since they were using it in their overpriced multibit DACs. I guess I could spend $150 to find out, but I'd rather not.

 

[Joe Smith]

I'm exactly where you are on this - intrigued, but not quite ready to spend - and it's actually $161 if you order the DAC and the power supply to get higher output voltage. I'm a bit unclear if the "supercomboburrito/MESH" filter affects the output differently than a roll-off filter. They seem to indicate it affects the data reconstruction as a whole? But there my DAC knowledge gets fuzzy.

I chuckle over the Schiit crew's playful names, copy and self-pleasure at their own inventiveness in general, but take it with a grain of salt. They do need to keep upgrading the lower product line stuff to bring in new purchasers and get older users to upgrade...

I think the new modular Magni amp + the MESH DAC card is a pretty great $200 buy, but it omits the other DAC inputs (Toslink and Coax). And I don't need another headphone amp at present. This year, I purchased the Saga 2 preamp and the Gjallarhorn amplifier, and I like them just fine, joining my Magni 3/Modi 3 stack.

Anyone have specific knowledge of the MESH filter effect and or sound qualities?

I'm hoping they will send this to Amir for testing, will be interested to see how it does compared to the prior Modis.

 

[kemmler3D]

Anyone have specific knowledge of the MESH filter effect and or sound qualities?

Schiit does! And they would share their test results if it proved anything substantive about the sound quality of this filter vs. any other.

Audibility of reconstruction filters is rare and I can think of only one example I've seen where anyone passed a blind test of them, and IIRC they had excellent ears and could hear a small difference around 20Khz.

Marketing of this type generally just exploits ignorance of or lack of confidence in one's knowledge of how DACs work.

Can a fancier lowpass filter really make your music sound more alive, or whatever? It doesn't make sense! But... surely they know something I don't?

I think Schiit is generally a good brand but they are willing to assert audibility without blind testing, I assume it's because they gotta pay the bills and stuff.

 

[Jim T]

I noticed that Schiit has released the Modi 5 for $150. It appears they still refuse to support DSD, but the new DAC does support their Mesh filter.
"All of our True Multibit or Multiform DACs have used our own proprietary digital filter, developed through decades of R&D. Mesh brings this unique digital filter to a much more affordable price point, by meshing (ahem) a 32-bit Microchip processor with a standard delta-sigma modulator. The result? Something that sounds a lot more like our more expensive DACs."

Has there been any measurements of this filter? I'm wondering what this filter could possibly do that would make it better than a sharp roll-off filter. My thought is this filter will be impossible to detect in a blind test compared to a standard filter, but it did make me curious. Especially since they were using it in their overpriced multibit DACs. I guess I could spend $150 to find out, but I'd rather not.

Order mine in Silver and will take about a week to get here. My DX5 II came today and sounds amazing. Tests are about the same as the older Modi's.

 

[Grenadine]

I just purchased the Mesh upgrade and will send in my schiit asgard 3 soon for the install. The current DAC I have in the Asgard is the es9028 and it's been solid. Doing the upgrade for experimental purposes. I'll report back.

 

[Joe Smith]

I've been contributing on another thread regarding Amir's recent test of what he thought was the new Magni Unity + MESH dac card combination. There is some question as to whether what he tested was the older Magni Unity model with the prior version dac card. A lot of negative comments about Schiit in general on that thread, which I've been pushing back (gently) about. I've decided not to change dacs at present, as I still have the Modi 3, JDS Labs Atom+ and the more recent Fosi Q6, all of which perform just fine.

I guess there's still a question in my mind as to whether the MESH dac card in the Magni can perform as well as the standalone Modi or Mimir dacs, but that's not easily answered without purchasing and comparing all 3...

 

[solderdude]

Different MESH card is used in the Asgard 3 then the one used in the Magni Unity so most likely the ground issues found in the Magni will not be happening in the Modi nor Mimir nor Asgard 3.

 

[Joe Smith]

Yes! It feels like there were compromises on Schiit’s part getting the dac card integrated into the Magni form factor/architecture. I think all the other ones would measure better…will be interesting to see. Schiit sure went all in on the new dac designs this time around.

I hope we will get at least a Mimir review eventually. Also hoping re Saga 2 and Gjallarhorn.

 

[solderdude]

Judging from the APx555 reports their DACs do not perform any better nor much worse than other DACs out there.
Their megaburritocomboclosedformfilter does not perform better nor worse than the filters installed in DS DAC chips.
Their Unity USB solution also does not perform better not worse than what's already out there.
What they managed to do is create an USB receiver they don't have to pay others for.
Their special filter is not special and an equally good filter is included already in the DAC chips they use and offers no benefits.
Of course ... they claim/say it does but have no objective proof (testimonials from users/designers is not proof)

 

[aagstn]

Judging from the APx555 reports their DACs do not perform any better nor much worse than other DACs out there.

Unless you try to use it for DSD files.

 

[solderdude]

DSD and Schitt don't go well together.
Well ... there was the Loki DSD DAC for a while.

 

[Csaba Kelemen]

MESH works with 18k taps, while ESS only works with a few hundred. As far as I know, Amir does not perform time domain distortion measurements, so we do not get accurate data on signal reconstruction.

 

[Joe Smith]

MESH works with 18k taps, while ESS only works with a few hundred. As far as I know, Amir does not perform time domain distortion measurements, so we do not get accurate data on signal reconstruction.

Huh???

 

[aagstn]

MESH works with 18k taps, while ESS only works with a few hundred. As far as I know, Amir does not perform time domain distortion measurements, so we do not get accurate data on signal reconstruction.

Sounds legit

 

[Steven Holt]

MESH works with 18k taps, while ESS only works with a few hundred. As far as I know, Amir does not perform time domain distortion measurements, so we do not get accurate data on signal reconstruction.

Is this in any way audible? And there is a reason why Amir does not perform these measurements : if he thought it mattered, he would do it.

 

[Csaba Kelemen]

Huh???

Measuring the bit accuracy of signal reconstruction is very difficult.

We know that the computational requirements of the Whittaker-Shannon interpolation required by the theory are horrendous, with 16-bit accuracy requiring mega taps.