schiit modi 3 - worth it?

[lordwerther]

Hi,

Please help make a good decision regarding a DAC i want to buy.
I currently have an integrated amp - yamaha s501 {https://www.whathifi.com/yamaha/s501/review} connected to my PC via optical cable to a X470 AORUS GAMING 7 WIFI motherboard { https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X470-AORUS-GAMING-7-WIFI-rev-10#sp }.

My question is this: will buying a schiit modi 3 as an external DAC make any difference in sound quality (sound stage, depth, "musicality") vs yamaha's own DAC ???
Is this investment worth it? If not, what would you recommend as an external DAC in this price range?

Thank you.

 

[gvl]

I would save my money for something else.

 

[Sekenenz]

Me too. The Modi 3 is decent in spdif, but in the same price/category you'll find better dacs, like Topping D30 (with toslink) or even the better Khadas TB (usb or spdif).

Will you hear difference in sound quality? It will depends from the rest of the audio chain.

 

[gvl]

What I meant the built-in Yamaha DAC is likely pretty good already, I wouldn't spend any money on an external DAC until it's proven to me otherwise or I needed a feature that's missing, eg a USB input or DSD.

 

[GGroch]

GVI, you are absolutely right

The Yamaha S501 has built in a quite good, if a bit older Texas Instruments PCM5101 based DAC which supports for PCM up to 192/24. It is very unlikely that replacing that with an external DAC will make a real audible difference. DACs sound very close to the same. You are likely to make a much bigger change by getting better speakers, a subwoofer, or headphones.

 

[TimW]

Just to reiterate what @gvl and @GGroch have said already, the DAC in your Yamaha is probably just fine. Even if the Schiit Modi 3 performs better than it in measurements, which we don't actually know, you probably won't be able to tell a difference. Your money is better spent on the parts of your system that directly affect sound like speakers, subwoofers, room treatment, headphones, etc.

 

[lordwerther]

thank you for all your answers.... helped me decide not to buy the modi

 

[gvl]

Let's hope Amir can get his hands on some 2-ch Yamaha gear of late. I always thought Yamaha makes decent products and I am holding my breath it didn't sink to the bottom of the ocean of mediocrity together with Sony.

 

[Nam]

I use yamaha as-501 and its DAC before buying a khadas tone board.
Huge difference.
yamaha as-501's DAC seems sweet & smooth sometime, I can imagine people like it. khadas tone board is better on many levels.

 

[lordwerther]

I use yamaha as-501 and its DAC before buying a khadas tone board.
Huge difference.
yamaha as-501's DAC seems sweet & smooth sometime, I can imagine people like it. khadas tone board is better on many levels.

In what way would you say is better?
Does it make the sound crisper or harsh?

 

[lordwerther]

Hello again,

Came back to say few words.
After reading here about DACs, i kept reading for a few months and been undecided. I've finally decided to get a khadas tone board and it just arrived few days ago.
What should i say? The sound is better. I've listened a few song over and over with and without the khadas attached between the yamaha amp and PC , and with the khadas there are sounds that i could not hear before. Definetly is not placeboo here.
The bass is more detailed and the overall sound level is higher at the same knob level.
The difference in sound details is not huge but IS THERE, YOU CAN HEAR IT.
Does it justify the buy? YES.

 

[GGroch]

Lordweather...I think you made a great choice. The khadas tone board has almost flawless performance at a very reasonable cost. A lot of people smarter than me on this forum swear by the khadas and I am happy you are pleased with your investment.

BUT.... The fact that you are hearing significant improvements does not mean they are not caused by the placebo effect (aka expectation bias).
Let me explain:

One difference you mention is definitely not placebo - if the khadas output is louder than the Yamaha DAC's output, then it will sound better when you switch back and forth. Louder sounds better (an old trick I learned when I was a stereo salesperson). Louder also means relatively more bass, because our ears are more sensitive to bass at higher volumes.

But if you want to determine if there is an actual improvement in bass detail and that the khadas is revealing sounds you could not hear before, the only way to do it is with the volume levels exactly the same (so with the knob higher on the Yamaha DAC) and with blind testing (you not knowing which DAC is playing). You have to A/B test then enough times for your preference to be statistically valid.

Unless you blind test there is always an expectation bias effect. It is real, and there is no way to think yourself around it. That is how human brains work. It his how humans hear. Even very smart people (like me ) are effected by expectation bias. When I believe a change in my system will improve the sound...it does.

That does not mean you should not like your new khadas. Its a great piece.

 

[lordwerther]

Well, to be honest , i was actually prepared to be disappointed with the khadas . In my mind i was thinking that it can't be that great as everyone says it is at this price and if it was it couldn't make any difference over the yamaha.
After listening few songs that i know very well and changing back and forth between yamaha and khadas, i was like "wow there is a difference.. ".
I usually listen with the volume knob around 10 - 10 30 o'clock on the yamaha amp and only change it from windows. At this level is loud enough for me and i don't bother any neighbour.
Maybe you are right about the sound level having a role in the quality of the bass for example.
I'm happy that the khadas doesn't change the "fabric" of sound that i'm used with the yamaha; it's the same, natural and not fatiguing .

 

[anmpr1]

Generally my impression is that the mid level Yamaha gear is decent value. Someone posted a u toob video of a couple of Yamaha 'engineers' replacing circuit board components of one of their integrated amps, and then casually sitting on a couch, listening for that special 'natural sound (tm) magic'. Supposedly in order to determine which transistors sound more pleasant to the European listener, or something. That kind of idiocy lowers my opinion of Yamaha, but I just chalk it up to goofball marketing.

 

[BDWoody]

Well, to be honest , i was actually prepared to be disappointed with the khadas . In my mind i was thinking that it can't be that great as everyone says it is at this price and if it was it couldn't make any difference over the yamaha.
After listening few songs that i know very well and changing back and forth between yamaha and khadas, i was like "wow there is a difference.. ".
I usually listen with the volume knob around 10 - 10 30 o'clock on the yamaha amp and only change it from windows. At this level is loud enough for me and i don't bother any neighbour.
Maybe you are right about the sound level having a role in the quality of the bass for example.
I'm happy that the khadas doesn't change the "fabric" of sound that i'm used with the yamaha; it's the same, natural and not fatiguing .

Happy to hear another positive review of the Khadas, and no doubt it should keep you very happy.

I would also reiterate what GGroch was saying... If your listening tests were done level matched and unsighted, the clear and obvious differences may have been far less clear and obvious.

We can't think or reason our way out of these innate biases, we can however implement some minimal controls that let us work around them when we are trying to make meaningful comparisons.