Schiit Magni Unity DAC/HP Amp Review

[Billy Budapest]

What transmits over USB ground is determined by the activities of your computer. Push the GPU and the noise changes. Push the SSD, and the noise changes. To the extent the DAC outputs such noise, you will then hear noise that is accompanying what the computer is doing.


I explained that already. In my system, the level of interference is very low and hence that comment. But since every PC is different, that noise could be much higher. You just don't know. What you do know is that there are no solid barriers against such interference. In sharp contrast, see this $199 DAC on the same test:

The noise floor is so low and clean that you see the low order bits of a 24 bit signal toggling on the left!!!

If there is sloppy engineering in keeping noise low, you are just going to have that chance of audibility.

I get it. I think noise interference over USB is a special case that would only pose a problem for some users. My USB DACs are connected to Roon endpoints which in turn are connected via Ethernet to my home network. Nothing is connected directly to a computer.

 

[Jimster480]

I get it. I think noise interference over USB is a special case that would only pose a problem for some users. My USB DACs are connected to Roon endpoints which in turn are connected via Ethernet to my home network. Nothing is connected directly to a computer.

Yes, it doesn't affect everyone... But if it does affect you then it's very annoying.

 

[amirm]

My USB DACs are connected to Roon endpoints which in turn are connected via Ethernet to my home network. Nothing is connected directly to a computer.

??? Your Roon end point is a computer.

 

[solderdude]

Did anyone get a new version of the Magni Unity with the MESH card version sent in to Amir? Just curious.

I looked back to see how the (2018) Modi 3 dac did on linearity; it too has a bit of unevenness after -100 dB, but far less of a concern (no drop-off per se) than the measurement Amir got with this version of the Unity amp.

Amir simply measured the Magni Unity with MESH card twice (so measured the same combo twice but in the second review did not measure the amp part (which is fine).
In the second review Amir only measured the DAC part (and not the amp) and also had 'noise issues related to ground'.

The DAC card tested here thus is already the 'new' DAC.

This means that while the Magni amp part is fine the MESH DAC card (we have no idea about the older card if it exists) has issues both in this review and the second review where Amir zoomed in on the DAC card performance.

The weird behavior seen there has very likely the same issue (ground issue with digital + analog part.
As that happened with 2 different Magni Unity amps (both with MESH DAC card) it is highly likely that the issue with the DAC card is real and not only in one amp/DAC combo.

Magni Unity amp is fine but the add-on DAC card MAY give some audible issues but most likely does not lead to audible issues in all situations.

Let's just say this is not the finest attempt of adding a DAC card to the Magni and would recommend a separate Modi if one wants to use a matching set.

Perhaps someone should send a new Modi (with MESH inside) to Amir to test to really find out if that one performs 'better' than the earlier Modi.

 

[Joe Smith]

Amir simply measured the Magni Unity with MESH card twice (so measured the same combo twice but in the second review did not measure the amp part (which is fine).
In the second review Amir only measured the DAC part (and not the amp) and also had 'noise issues related to ground'.

The DAC card tested here thus is already the 'new' DAC.

This means that while the Magni amp part is fine the MESH DAC card (we have no idea about the older card if it exists) has issues both in this review and the second review where Amir zoomed in on the DAC card performance.

The weird behavior seen there has very likely the same issue (ground issue with digital + analog part.
As that happened with 2 different Magni Unity amps (both with MESH DAC card) it is highly likely that the issue with the DAC card is real and not only in one amp/DAC combo.

Magni Unity amp is fine but the add-on DAC card MAY give some audible issues but most likely does not lead to audible issues in all situations.

Let's just say this is not the finest attempt of adding a DAC card to the Magni and would recommend a separate Modi if one wants to use a matching set.

Perhaps someone should send a new Modi (with MESH inside) to Amir to test to really find out if that one performs 'better' than the earlier Modi.

I’d be more interested in seeing how the separate newer Modi 5 does. I think the current Unity Magni + MESH card would measure no different than what Amir has already done. I was thinking about ordering a new Modi, but I don’t really “need” it as the Modi 3 and JDS Atom+ I have are perfectly fine. The nice thing about the full Modi is that it can run just on USB power if desired, plus it has USB, coax and optical inputs. A bit more versatile than the Atom 2 at about the same price…

 

[Jimster480]

I’d be more interested in seeing how the separate newer Modi 5 does. I think the current Unity Magni + MESH card would measure no different than what Amir has already done. I was thinking about ordering a new Modi, but I don’t really “need” it as the Modi 3 and JDS Atom+ I have are perfectly fine. The nice thing about the full Modi is that it can run just on USB power if desired, plus it has USB, coax and optical inputs. A bit more versatile than the Atom 2 at about the same price…

Usually running only on USB power results in more drops and issues because USB power isn't always the same from every source. Usually a USB Hub in a computer has a small amount of power to share between all ports. That is why external power rather than relying on often dirty USB power is definitely better for audio devices.

 

[Jimster480]

Amir simply measured the Magni Unity with MESH card twice (so measured the same combo twice but in the second review did not measure the amp part (which is fine).
In the second review Amir only measured the DAC part (and not the amp) and also had 'noise issues related to ground'.

The DAC card tested here thus is already the 'new' DAC.

This means that while the Magni amp part is fine the MESH DAC card (we have no idea about the older card if it exists) has issues both in this review and the second review where Amir zoomed in on the DAC card performance.

The weird behavior seen there has very likely the same issue (ground issue with digital + analog part.
As that happened with 2 different Magni Unity amps (both with MESH DAC card) it is highly likely that the issue with the DAC card is real and not only in one amp/DAC combo.

Magni Unity amp is fine but the add-on DAC card MAY give some audible issues but most likely does not lead to audible issues in all situations.

Let's just say this is not the finest attempt of adding a DAC card to the Magni and would recommend a separate Modi if one wants to use a matching set.

Perhaps someone should send a new Modi (with MESH inside) to Amir to test to really find out if that one performs 'better' than the earlier Modi.

Yep, seems that all the crying by the Schiit fans came out just how many of us suspected.... unwarranted and unfounded. Overall both of the devices perform nearly the same and actually shows the QC on the units isn't good either as they both have similar but not exactly the same issues.
Schiit is trying to produce things in the USA and be competitive but they can't seem to make a well engineered product like other brands.

 

[solderdude]

In all fairness the Magni Unity amp is actually pretty good and 'transparent' and packs a lot of power. More than most need.
The OPTIONAL DAC card by itself is also decent enough. Only the implementation of the add-on card is a bit of a let down.
Use and external DAC (Modi 3,4 or 5) or any other DAC (dongle like JM20pro) will work and sound every bit as good as any other device that has similar purpose.

Schiit bashing is not really needed. Sure, there are some not great performing models they made but in all fairness so do all the Chinese brands at a similar price point.
One just has to keep in mind that, just like any other brand, it is all about marketing.

In this case it is only a PCB design issue (my take on this until proven incorrect) that in some cases may lead to audible sounds when connected to a PC that inserts high leakage currents. Otherwise it is just 'transparent' IMO.

 

[Joe Smith]

Usually running only on USB power results in more drops and issues because USB power isn't always the same from every source. Usually a USB Hub in a computer has a small amount of power to share between all ports. That is why external power rather than relying on often dirty USB power is definitely better for audio devices.

Yes, and from that perspective, the new Modi 5 from Schiit is pretty good, as you can run it either way. Even my Modi 3 does that, it has a power USB in as well as data in. Runs from a 5v1a plug. I think the new Modi has some improvement with regard to the power with use of its wall-wart. The JDS Labs Atom+ (and I believe the Atom 2) requires use of their 15v wall-wart.

 

[Steven Holt]

Nothing is connected directly to a computer.

Wait.....what? You cannot run Roon without a computer, my friend.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Wait.....what? You cannot run Roon without a computer, my friend.

You certainly can. Message me for details if you’d like to know how.

 

[Billy Budapest]

??? Your Roon end point is a computer.

Let me rephrase—they are not PC’s (personal computers). They are dedicated embedded systems, without fans or mechanicals drives. No opportunity for the type of noise leakage you describe.

 

[amirm]

Let me rephrase—they are not PC’s (personal computers). They are dedicated embedded systems, without fans or mechanicals drives. No opportunity for the type of noise leakage you describe.

Of course there is. Here is an example: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tek-brooklyn-bridge-ii-streamer-review.52460/

Most of the spikes in the FFT are interference from the embedded computer in there. Should you hook up an external device to it, it is likely to transmit the same over its USB ground.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Of course there is. Here is an example: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tek-brooklyn-bridge-ii-streamer-review.52460/

Most of the spikes in the FFT are interference from the embedded computer in there. Should you hook up an external device to it, it is likely to transmit the same over its USB ground.

They aren’t completely immune—and I’m not surprised Mytek products are offenders—but a small embedded unit with a good power supply (ie, quality Meanwell wall wart) will probably be more quiet than your average PC running multiple hardware peripherals and software packages, with multiple fans, etc. I did read the review of the SoTM SMS-200 (that’s one of the endpoints I use) and noted that the noise performance is highly dependent on the power supply used. I am sure the other endpoints I use (all cobbled together at various times: Raspberry Pi, Auralic Aries Mini, Sonore MicroRendu, WiiM Pro Plus) are similarly dependent on good power supplies. And just for the record, I do not own or use any Schiit DACs, so the discussion is purely theoretical on my end.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Wait.....what? You cannot run Roon without a computer, my friend.

So are you going to message me? I’ll explain how to run a Roon setup without a PC.

 

[Steven Holt]

So are you going to message me? I’ll explain how to run a Roon setup without a PC.

If I were going to message you I would have done so by now. If you have a revelation for our membership, go ahead and publish it on this thread.

 

[Jimster480]

In all fairness the Magni Unity amp is actually pretty good and 'transparent' and packs a lot of power. More than most need.
The OPTIONAL DAC card by itself is also decent enough. Only the implementation of the add-on card is a bit of a let down.
Use and external DAC (Modi 3,4 or 5) or any other DAC (dongle like JM20pro) will work and sound every bit as good as any other device that has similar purpose.

Schiit bashing is not really needed. Sure, there are some not great performing models they made but in all fairness so do all the Chinese brands at a similar price point.
One just has to keep in mind that, just like any other brand, it is all about marketing.

In this case it is only a PCB design issue (my take on this until proven incorrect) that in some cases may lead to audible sounds when connected to a PC that inserts high leakage currents. Otherwise it is just 'transparent' IMO.

I wouldn't say something with such Linearity problems is "transparent" at all. Especially with the possible grounding issues, why even waste the time? Just by something that was engineered properly.
You would be surprised how many computers have grounding problems today in regards to USB, especially in laptops which is the primary form of computer people use today (unfortunately).
There are plenty of amps with "more than enough power" literally everywhere at this point. Had this product come out 10 years ago, many people would have felt differently about it, but today it just isn't really competitive. A company that makes as much money as Schiit can definitely spend the time and money to engineer something properly.
You can't tell me that the Chinese companies can do it but Schiit can't?

 

[Billy Budapest]

If I were going to message you I would have done so by now. If you have a revelation for our membership, go ahead and publish it on this thread.

I just DM’ed you instructions and a link.

 

[stuartkohl]

Boy, it depresses me how quick many of you are to throw Schiit under the bus because of one middling (not awful) product that still fills the need of many folks at a decent price point. Schiit products in general have measured very well of late. Yes, they tweak constantly and change product versions, but so do Fosi, Topping, SMSL, many others. Those companies have some better items, some not as good, too. While I wish this one item tested a bit better, I still respect them as a company trying to make good things for a decent price point.

I agree with Amir's conclusion in the review - we now expect better from them, and they can do better. But I keep their whole product range in perspective in my opinion about the company as a whole.

There is no comparison there when it comes to DACs.

Jason has hinted at this. He's said that many companies wait for the next new DAC chip to drop from ESS, AKM, TI, etc. and those new chips are what allow for new models. In other words, many companies have to wait for a new chip before they can justify a new model.

Schiit having their own proprietary technologies allows them to release new revisions and models on their own timeline, rather than being limited to the chipmaker's timeline.

They're also able to stagger their new models to stand out from the field. When, for example, ESS releases a new DAC chip, there will be a whole batch of companies releasing new DAC models with that new ESS chip. You can get lost in the crowd with a dozen or dozens of new models coming out from various companies - all with the new chip.

In contrast, Schiit doesn't typically follow the leading edge of new DAC chips. They pick chips on their terms, on their timeline, and can rev models even when there is nothing new from the chipmakers.

Whether this is good or bad is up for debate.

I do like some of Schiit's less-expensive products. I just keep in mind that the product I own satisfies me and that this doesn't change because a newer product is released. Holding on to my devices for long periods of time may not endear me to vendors, but it's worked well for me over the years.

 

[solderdude]

Jason has hinted at this. He's said that many companies wait for the next new DAC chip to drop from ESS, AKM, TI, etc. and those new chips are what allow for new models. In other words, many companies have to wait for a new chip before they can justify a new model.

Nah, all companies making audio gear don't 'wait' for new chips to come out to make new models.

When, for example, ESS releases a new DAC chip, there will be a whole batch of companies releasing new DAC models with that new ESS chip. You can get lost in the crowd with a dozen or dozens of new models coming out from various companies - all with the new chip.

Indeed what most audio companies generally do is make a new model as soon as a new chip comes to the market as buyers want this.
Downside usually is that many FW iterations are needed to get it to work properly.
Some brands have a slightly different approach and take more time to launch a product and thus are not using the latest and greatest (measurement or feature wise) chip(sets).
Some brands take it even slower than that. Schiit is one of them.

Still, the issue with DAC-card-amp combo in this case does not seem to have been prevented, EMC testing would have caught it and a redesign of the DAC-card would likely have been done or at least considered.

But it isn't about 'justifying a new model'.
t has to do with selling as much devices as possible with a good profit margin, it has to do with visibility in the market and meeting demands of the market (consumers).