Schiit Magni Mesh DAC Review

[amirm]

From what I read on reddit, when you submit the service request they ask you to send in the cans too. If they determine they caused it, they cover it.

That doesn't mean anything unless it is in their Warranty terms and it isn't. Maybe that was part of their damage control years ago when they did damage said headphones. But it isn't now. And if their products don't damage headphones, why have this policy anyway???

 

[amirm]

My main point was that I’m not prepared to damn them unilaterally because one product makes our group feel unhappy.

I have tested two versions of this product, each with its own issues. Clearly they have taken their eye off the ball. You can be critical so that they get the clear message that they need to improve. Or make excuses for them so they continue to not take closed loop testing seriously. Company's marketing material clearly indicates they "survived" the measurement focused era. Is this what you want to happen?

Let's remember that it was pressure from us that caused them to buy a proper audio analyzer and take measurements seriously. We have that impact. But only if we stay the course and be critical objectively. We have plenty of that here. In that regard, both the product and the company deserve to be pushed to do better.

 

[Mocie]

Where is the acknowledgement of issues with this version or the previous one? All I saw was denial on the original.

I'm talking about returning/repairing faulty/damaged products here, not performance improvements etc. You have 50 pages across both DX5II threads with stories of how they had people from Shenzhen ask for direct paypal payments for shipping, and customs paperwork getting messed up and the product getting trapped in limbo forever with no recourse from Topping. The point here is more what you raised - getting action on something faulty is gonna be infinitely easier with a US company than a Chinese one, and thats a reason why someone might pursue a lesser measuring product.

JDS measure better than this, and John's tech support is unmatched. There's a reason I'll always push people to their stuff when its economically feasible.

 

[amirm]

I'm talking about returning/repairing faulty/damaged products here, not performance improvements etc.

You have no idea what is going on regarding Schiit in that regard. What your 2 or 3 friends have is not material. As for Topping, we are their de-factor support forum so more people would come here to complain, than there would be for Schiit elsewhere. Topping likely sells tons more of these desktop products than Schiit ever does.

So don't go speculating. You don't have the facts. Stay focused on the review and reliable data we have in front of us.

 

[Steven Holt]

I have this nightmare (well, it's really a fear), that Schitt is going to team up with Zu Audio and make a system that will terrify even Dr. Frankenstein.

 

[Joe Smith]

I have tested two versions of this product, each with its own issues. Clearly they have taken their eye off the ball. You can be critical so that they get the clear message that they need to improve. Or make excuses for them so they continue to not take closed loop testing seriously. Company's marketing material clearly indicates they "survived" the measurement focused era. Is this what you want to happen?

Let's remember that it was pressure from us that caused them to buy a proper audio analyzer and take measurements seriously. We have that impact. But only if we stay the course and be critical objectively. We have plenty of that here. In that regard, both the product and the company deserve to be pushed to do better.

I think what you say here is fine. What I don’t like is when members all slam them broadly and say everything they make is poor. That is simply not so. People pile on and want to outdo each other in slamming them up and down. Is that really something you think is right and what you want this site to reflect?

 

[fws]

This comparison always sucks when you take into account the Asgard thing happened like 10 years ago and their policy since has been to replace any headphones that were damaged by their products should it happen. Look at the L30 I thread and how hard Topping tried to not do this, or thr DX5II thread where it seems like they aren't acknowledging the issue whatsoever.

You are still not mentioning how Schiit went on full denial in communication from their employees, and as far as attacking the community members who dared to raise a valid point. It is good they finally figured out they were in the wrong, and they modified their policy accordingly, but before that happened, it was the worst behavior from a company in this industry I've ever saw. I mean, that was just crazy. And this is just one part of it, and I don't mean it as excusing Topping, but as not forgetting Schiit is not innocent when it comes to build quality and design issues.

Pinning this phenomenon on a single brand is wild.

Just an observation, I'm on r/HeadphoneAdvice on a daily basis for 4-5 years now, and not counting dongles, until recently (not so the past year) the most prevalent reportedly broken desktop DAC would be FiiO E10K. However E10K not only been on the market for longer, but also might be the most popular desktop DAC in the word, so the scale should considerably differ. By any means I wouldn't call Schiit to be Hifiman of DAC/Amps, and the next brand in line might be Topping, but I just see those "My Modi failed, so I'm looking for a new..." more often than mentions of other brands.

But by all means, experiences can differ. In my eyes, picking Schiit just does not equal to giving up a few dB of performance for a build quality related peace of mind (which would be something I would get behind).

 

[Zgrado1970]

I think what you say here is fine. What I don’t like is when members all slam them broadly and say everything they make is poor. That is simply not so. People pile on and want to outdo each other in slamming them up and down. Is that really something you think is right and what you want this site to reflect?

Why go so hard in support of a business?

 

[Joe Smith]

Why go so hard in support of a business?

Because I feel the discourse on here gets stupid, when one bad review makes people completely trash a company. It’s just wrong! I like a lot of different audio gear, I’m not heavily invested in Schiit. But what I have bought, has been good and a decent value.

 

[solderdude]

In the end its about total failures on an entire product run.
The simple fact is NO manufacturer publishes failure rates of their products.
Nor will they publish what damages their failing gear led to and how much of that is reimbursed.

Here's the thing.
When people have an audio device that does not live up to their expectations or even worse fails they will be very vocal about this.
So a handful of fails (and all equipment at one point will fail) will seem big on forums as people love drama.

On sites that promote Schiit products it is customary to hate and bash cheap Chinese products and one sees all kinds of 'love' threads.

Schiit is not better or worse and their magni's (just like L30) failed sometimes and destroyed headphones.
Comparable.

On this forum we also often read about failures from Topping gear as well as the occasional Schiit devices.
You can read it because a LOT of devices are sold increasing the chance of a 'failure' happening and being 'reported' on some forum.

Topping an Schiit both sell relative cheap and more expensive gear measuring well or less well.
Both cater for their buyers which may or may not be the same customers.

Fact remains.... the issue shown by Amir is real and may or may not lead to an audible problem depending on the situation it is used in.
The comboburrito closed-form filter obviously has nothing to do with this issue and does not perform better nor worse than any other similar filter used in the exact same DS DAC chip they are using.
It also has nothing to do with the USB receiver being their own 'Unison' type as this issue is a leakage issue and not a receiver issue.
The receiver works fine and when connected to a USB source does not seem to perform better than what is used in other DACs.
That is all marketing fluff just like the nonsense peddled in advertising by all other brands. Schiit is no worse or better than the mentioned Chinese brands that now found a new cash cow (op-amp swapping).

 

[eykxas]

No it isn't. It is just below audibility thresholds (in that particular case)

If you can’t hear any difference, then explain me why it matters?

 

[solderdude]

Amir tests for signal fidelity and not for audibility levels.

If every issues are not audible... Then the "signal fidelity" is preserved.

If you can’t hear any difference, then explain me why it matters?

Signal fidelity is not the same as sound quality.

Signal is electric and easily measured / quantified.
Sound is movement of air and is influenced my many factors not in the least the most variable one... perception. This is 'hearing'.

Besides not all use cases are the same so what might not lead to an audible difference in circumstance 'A' may well become an audible issue in another use case and then it matters.

Of course when you can't hear differences between 2 devices and they both offer the same functionality then for technical reasons the choice is moot and may depend on price, looks, availability, longevity/build quality or whatever other reason one may find to prefer this over that.

 

[Matias]

Because I feel the discourse on here gets stupid, when one bad review makes people completely trash a company. It’s just wrong! I like a lot of different audio gear, I’m not heavily invested in Schiit. But what I have bought, has been good and a decent value.

Again it is not only "one bad review", also this one below. I am comparing Schiit to Schiit. They have been better than that.

 

[eykxas]

Signal fidelity is not the same as sound quality.

Signal is electric and easily measured / quantified.
Sound is movement of air and is influenced my many factors not in the least the most variable one... perception. This is 'hearing'.

Besides not all use cases are the same so what might not lead to an audible difference in circumstance 'A' may well become an audible issue in another use case and then it matters.

Of course when you can't hear differences between 2 devices and they both offer the same functionality then for technical reasons the choice is moot and may depend on price, looks, availability, longevity/build quality or whatever other reason one may find to prefer this over that.

I totally agree with that, but that’s not my point. Setting functionality aside, most of the “issues” measured on about… 70% of the gear tested ? are already beyond the threshold of audibility…

So arguing that [insert gear name here] is “crap” because some measurements look bad, even though they are inaudible, is, in my opinion, meaningless. In any real-world listening scenario, the device performs perfectly fine.

Just to be clear, I’m not saying that you personally made that claim, I’m speaking in a general sense. And from an engineering perspective, this kind of analysis is obviously very interesting, and I’m not questioning its relevance at all. What I question are the conclusions drawn from it. Labeling a device as “not recommended” when no one would realistically be able to hear the difference seems questionable to me.

 

[fws]

So arguing that [insert gear name here] is “crap” because some measurements look bad, even though they are inaudible, is, in my opinion, meaningless. In any real-world listening scenario, the device performs perfectly fine.

What I question are the conclusions drawn from it. Labeling a device as “not recommended” when no one would realistically be able to hear the difference seems questionable to me.

Sorry, to butt in, but it was raised several times, that it might be audible in specific cases. So it is not "in any real-world listening scenario, the device performs perfectly fine". Not everyone have amirm's bench setup, and hence this is why it is better to have an overhead of performance. The problem in case of this device is that it can lead to variable results, and one could even argue that is a bigger problem than just outright measuring worse. It is also about pointing out a decline, you don't want to recommend a product where the performance, or stability of the performance is in decline when compared to previous products, although I wouldn't think of it as a deciding point in getting recommendation or not - in this case it is clear the likely simple engineering flaw is the underlying issue.

 

[JustJones]

I have this nightmare (well, it's really a fear), that Schitt is going to team up with Zu Audio and make a system that will terrify even Dr. Frankenstein.

Schiit- Zu would be dog of a product.

 

[Joe Smith]

Again it is not only "one bad review", also this one below. I am comparing Schiit to Schiit. They have been better than that.

Both recent reviews from Amir have to do with the add-on card into the Magni Unity amp, the first the previous Unity version, most recently the new MESH version. I imagine there are many similarities in the board layout/architecture since these were only designed about a year apart. And I agree that based on Amir's testing, the card implementations in the Magni have some issues which could be audible and lead to less than perfect sound. So I think it's fine to call this out and for him to not recommend, and for the bulk of us to say the product is mostly "not terrible." I think it's also fine to say, do better than this, Schiit, we know you can.

What seems quite wrong to me is the number of people who then take the opportunity to trash the company for all products and say that everything they make is bad. (And yes, I remember the older headphone issue with one of the products, but that's quite a while ago, and ultimately I think Schiit did come through on that one and work with people.) I think half of these comments are just people who want to make a "new" poop joke. Relax. Whatever you write, it's been written before.

Ultimately, it does not matter to me. I like and use many of their products, and think they are mostly well made. I don't rush to upgrade to their newest and most-hyped thing, just buy what I need and make decisions between manufacturers mostly based on measurements and specifications.

 

[Steven Holt]

Schiit- Zu would be dog of a product.

Oh, I was just having a little fun here. Schitt's smart enough not to do this. I think nearly everyone on this forum likes Schitt, we just want them to do better!

 

[confucius_zero]

What seems quite wrong to me is the number of people who then take the opportunity to trash the company for all products and say that everything they make is bad. (

If you spend enough time here (which you might have since you are a member from 2019), you'll understand that the point isn't that they aren't built, don't sound or perform great from a subjective standpoint. Heck, I have personal subjective opinions on the way 2 products with identical sinads sound, but it's not much the space to discuss this.

The point is that the objective quality of their electronic implementation isn't competitive even when compared to drastically more affordable alternatives.

 

[solderdude]

I totally agree with that, but that’s not my point. Setting functionality aside, most of the “issues” measured on about… 70% of the gear tested ? are already beyond the threshold of audibility…

So arguing that [insert gear name here] is “crap” because some measurements look bad, even though they are inaudible, is, in my opinion, meaningless. In any real-world listening scenario, the device performs perfectly fine.

But this thread is not a general thread... It is about a specific (combined) device.

Just to be clear, I’m not saying that you personally made that claim, I’m speaking in a general sense. And from an engineering perspective, this kind of analysis is obviously very interesting, and I’m not questioning its relevance at all. What I question are the conclusions drawn from it. Labeling a device as “not recommended” when no one would realistically be able to hear the difference seems questionable to me.

But this thread is about the Magni with MESH card and it shows an issue namely sensitivity to common mode/leakage currents from the DAC card.
Depending on the situation this could become an audible issue.

This is what is reported by Amir and why it does not get a recommended.
When you don't measure it nor test for it you will never know and can only let your (or someone else's) ears decide ... and that tells us nothing except that persons opinion.

The fact that readers/responders have their say about this is hardly Amir's fault.
The same happens on other forums and if these are partial to Schiit other brands that are also cheap, measure better get the full scorn of 'sounding poor'.
So this is not unique to ASR.

I have nothing against Schiit (most won't) but don't own any of it nor heard/demoed any of it.
I am sure in a blind test Schiit stuff cannot be told apart from similar priced gear from other brands.

I would gladly recommend the later Magni (the ones with DC output protection) but would not recommend installing that DAC card but rather buy the Modi or any other DAC.