Schiit Magni Mesh DAC Review

[Ajax]

For those interested in this unit for another $130 you can get a Wiim Ultra with a lot of additional features (both units have headphone amps, but they are not very powerful)

• Streaming: bit-perfect audio streaming up to 24-bit/192kHz.
• DAC: higher quality ESS ES9038Q2M SABRE DAC, which provides SINAD of 115 dB.
• Preamplifier: physical volume/play/pause knob and a 3.5-inch full-colour touchscreen for navigating inputs, viewing album art, and managing settings.
• Room Correction: Uses your smartphone’s microphone and the WiiM Home app to measure room acoustics and create custom EQ filters
• Bass Management: Features a dedicated subwoofer output with adjustable crossover frequency, level, phase, and latency controls.

• Wired Inputs: HDMI ARC (for TV audio), Optical, Line-in (RCA), Phono-in, and USB Type-A for external storage playback.
• Wired Outputs: Line-out (RCA), Optical, Coaxial, USB Audio-out, Subwoofer-out, and a front-mounted 3.5mm headphone jack.
• Wireless Standards: Wi-Fi 6E and Bluetooth 5.3 for both receiving audio from a phone and transmitting to wireless headphones.
• Streaming Protocols: Google Chromecast, Spotify Connect, TIDAL Connect, Alexa Cast, DLNA, and is Roon Ready.
• Smart Home Integration: Works with Amazon Alexa and Google Assistant for voice

WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Ultra network streamer, DAC, phono stage and preamplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $329. Physical attribute are modern and attractive enough. Alas, I can't say the same thing about the graphical interface. Icons seem...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Good

 

[Wunderphones]

I get that they want to differentiate with their own designs. But this has to provide clear user benefit, and not reduce performance. Best to put the marketing costs for the new DAC into better design or else, give up and use an IC solution like everyone else

I’m not sure what this means. Is this about their in-house USB tech?

If so, have we seen this USB noise issue crop up in other recent Schiit products?

 

[Matias]

FYI this Magni MESH DAC card still uses ESS dac chip, so it is NOT an all new in-house developed DAC.
They describe it as a "DAC topology that fuses our unique time- and frequency-domain optimized digital filter with a standard delta-sigma modulator".

 

[solderdude]

AFAIK they merely created their own USB receiver on the premise that they can do that better than the of-the-shelf solutions.
Also they use their own filter design, as a DAC chip they use the ESS chip (and make no secret about that).
The claim is better sound quality because of the (not selectable) filter which fans are glad to accept as true but acc. to the measurements is just as good as any other decent filter.

The issue with this DAC section is not the USB receiver (seems to work fine) nor the filter but a 'less than stellar' ground/power supply layout/routing which appears to be sensitive to ground loops.
This can be avoided using (USB-C) isolators in which case it works fine but adds to the costs and devices/cable.

My suggestion would be to use the JM20 Max and buy the Magni without the add-on DAC card ..... unless you believe the marketing hype about the superior 'Mega Combo Burrito Filter' and their 'superior' USB receiver.

 

[Matias]

The issue with this DAC section is not the USB receiver (seems to work fine) nor the filter but a 'less than stellar' ground/power supply layout/routing which appears to be sensitive to ground loops.
This can be avoided using (USB-C) isolators in which case it works fine but adds to the costs and devices/cable.

The ADUM3165 costs 8.10 usd in 250 pieces on Mouser's website. Assuming Schiit Audio's BOM to retail multiplier in the 2-3x range, say 2.5x, this would be a +20 usd increase on the retail price. Well worth it IMO.

 

[solderdude]

Also requires an additional DC/DC converter (if not powered by USB source) and other components and requires a redesign of the board.
All of this to solve an issue that most likely could be solved by a better board/board-connector layout.
This could have been avoided when doing some simple EMC testing in the development stage.
In all fairness... this will mostly not become an audible issue anyway.

 

[Power Pop 23]

The ADUM3165 costs 8.10 usd in 250 pieces on Mouser's website. Usuming Schiit Audio's BOM to retail multiplier in the 2-3x range, say 2.5x, this would be a +20 usd increase on the retail price. Well worth it IMO.

Agreed.

For the market beyond ASR members, I wonder how much pressure Schiit feels to adhere to a retail price of $199 - and the trade-offs that come with that price point.

 

[Joe Smith]

I'm not an EE, but it seems like the USB noise something that would have been fairly easy to avoid/design out. As I read Amir's review, I'm more bothered by the bad low-end linearity, which is the same basic situation with the prior Unison DAC card for the Magni.

It would be interesting to see how the "MESH" dac does in the standalone new Modi or Mimir products from them, but that's for another day...since I really have no need of their "Forkbeard" technology, no impetus to buy one.

Since I don't use headphones much now, the old Magni 3/Modi 3 stack I have takes care of that for now. I can also plug in headphones when I use the Saga 2 preamp with the Gjallarhorn amp, which eliminates the need for a separate headphone amp (I use moderate impedance 'phones so the power in the Saga works fine).

 

[Joe Smith]

Agreed.

For the market beyond ASR members, I wonder how much pressure Schiit feels to adhere to a retail price of $199 - and the trade-offs that come with that price point.

I'm sure they know they really need to hold the line on sub-$200 for the entry-level items, just with the high value coming just from JDS Labs, and then add in all the overseas makers... (Another reason why I think they put so much into their "in your face" marketing, it helps distinguish them from others along with the "made in USA" push.)

 

[JeremyFife]

Thanks for the review Amirm, always good to read the slightly non-standard ones (in this case, a revision of a previous review)

I really want Schiit products to do well, partially for the pun potential but mainly because the company sounds fun.

Performance is not horrible, but there's no excuse for allowing noise like this. Not great.

 

[oleg87]

The performance seems fine, but the main selling point seems to be "made in the US" because I don't see much of a value proposition here otherwise - more expensive and fewer features than most things it's competing against.

 

[Herbert Shooler]

Its still on a par with the Chord Dave, which is an all time ATROCITY

 

[Joe Smith]

The performance seems fine, but the main selling point seems to be "made in the US" because I don't see much of a value proposition here otherwise - more expensive and fewer features than most things it's competing against.

Change from the Magni "just an amp" to "Magni Unity" was to create a good-quality DAC + headphone amp under $200 in a small single box, minimal footprint on desktop. Which is a good product niche for them. The problem has been the design and implementation of the DAC card into the amp. Given their knowledge base, it seems unlikely to me that they couldn't do a better job than what Amir is measuring if they wanted to, and keep it under $200. So I have to conclude that they just thought, "meh, it's good enough" and left it there.

As to features, the adjustable gain is nice - the deal breaker for me is the absence of coax or optical inputs. I'd rather pay a little more and have separate DAC and amp.

My guess is that research revealed that people liked the previous Magni and Modi price-wise, but some users really wanted one box, not two, on a desktop.

 

[amirm]

FYI this Magni MESH DAC card still uses ESS dac chip, so it is NOT an all new in-house developed DAC.
They describe it was a "DAC topology that fuses our unique time- and frequency-domain optimized digital filter with a standard delta-sigma modulator".

Then I am puzzled how they screwed this up:

 

[jimmyjames8]

Not sure if your testing shows this or not but with the MESH dac card, the gain/settings/switch positions now results in a totally different increase/decrease in headphone volume (for me and my ATH-M30X cans anyway) vs the Unison Dac card.

 

[amirm]

Not sure if your testing shows this or not but with the MESH dac card, the gain/settings/switch positions now results in a totally different increase/decrease in headphone volume (for me and my ATH-M30X cans anyway) vs the Unison Dac card.

Thanks for that feedback. In medium gain at least, at max volume, both produced nearly identical output (1.93 volt vs 1.92).

 

[Mocie]

All of this to solve an issue that most likely could be solved by a better board/board-connector layout.

I know they're currently printing boards in house and the Mesh was one of the first things they learned to do it with, wonder how much that resulted in a gimped performance.

 

[Matias]

They do have an APx555b in house, how can they still release it like this? I don't understand.

 

[PristineSound]

They are playing a delicate dance between the subjectivists and objectivists.

It is what it is, you just have to know which company and/or products are facts vs fables.