Schiit Magni Mesh DAC Review

[gvl]

I’m curious if the original name of it was MEH DAC, but Schiit marketing department refused to sign off.

 

[shuppatsu]

As an aside I have to wonder how much time they spent coming up with their name? Maybe Stoole was already taken. It's not like KIA which was a translation or cultural issue. Seems like a lot of audio companies don't think too much about branding.

It was very purposeful and arguably very successful anti-marketing.

This is 100% true. They sell their products to people that watch Darko and Cheap Audioman videos. Most of their buyers care nothing for objective measurements and noise is probably a good thing to have because it gives it that different sound so many are looking for.

Noise isn't going to give a different sound, but more to the point, the noise is most likely imperceptibly low. Though Amir has a point that with poor isolation, it could be worse on someone else's setup than it was here.

 

[amirm]

This is 100% true. They sell their products to people that watch Darko and Cheap Audioman videos.

I don't know what they are thinking. But it better not be that:

 

[Steve Dallas]

??? RME easily beat the Schiit in every measurement. Here is an example IMD:

And that is from nearly 6 years ago!

Apologies, my comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek RE our shared obsession with SINAD. This DAC does beat the RME Babyface interface in that regard by 2 super important decibels.

 

[Joe Smith]

Amir, thanks for testing the latest version of the product. It is disappointing, Schiit should know better, and know that they will get called out for engineering backsliding. I own several good products from them, I know they are capable of making good things. I have always had the highest respect for companies that have the same QC up and down the product line and provide a good product at a low price point level as well as the high. It is unfortunate that Schiit would not keep the value proposition high for both the Magni and Modi units, their entry level items. Perhaps the next generation will be a return to form, I can only hope so.

 

[Joe Smith]

For folks who are using the current Modi and Magni versions, it may be worth checking out the nice "Synapse" USB galvanic isolator from JDS Labs. The plastic case version is quite inexpensive, and helps reduce noise coming from the USB connection. I own one, and have it line line with my main system DAC. I could verify it works when using with the original V1 Schiit Fulla, which passes a s-ton of USB noise. It was not entirely gone with the Synapse in line, but was greatly reduced, to the point where the device could be used again (if I wanted).

(The original V1 Fulla was almost an experimental "proof of concept" type product from Schiit, it was not out for very long until the later, larger but improved Fulla entered their product line. On some computers, without a hub, the USB noise was passable; but on the majority, it was noisy.)

 

[Surfrat]

For folks who are using the current Modi and Magni versions, it may be worth checking out the nice "Synapse" USB galvanic isolator from JDS Labs. The plastic case version is quite inexpensive, and helps reduce noise coming from the USB connection. I own one, and have it line line with my main system DAC. I could verify it works when using with the original V1 Schiit Fulla, which passes a s-ton of USB noise. It was not entirely gone with the Synapse in line, but was greatly reduced, to the point where the device could be used again (if I wanted).

(The original V1 Fulla was almost an experimental "proof of concept" type product from Schiit, it was not out for very long until the later, larger but improved Fulla entered their product line. On some computers, without a hub, the USB noise was passable; but on the majority, it was noisy.)

I can recommend the Adum3160 Usb Isolator. I have a Fosi Q6 DAC (two channel music) and a Sound Blaster X4 (5.1 for movies). When both are connected to my Fosi ZP3 preamp I could hear digital noise 1m away from the speakers. Unplugging either would remove the noise. The USB isolater inline with the Q6 solved the problem.

A really cheap solution.

https://www.takealot.com/adum3160-usb-isolator-module-usb-to-usb-voltage-isolator-module/PLID99932948

 

[solderdude]

Looks like a not so well ground layout issue between the 'DAC card' and audio-ground on the 'amp mother board' judging from both Magni-DAC reviews.
The Mesh DAC seems to measure slightly better (not to be confused with the Technics MASH DAC).
The USB isolator seems like a good solution if one is plagued by ground-loop issues, or even just 'to be sure'.

Otherwise this DAC-amp seems totally 'transparent' to me.
In the € 200.- there are alternatives though unless you really want something from Schiit for some reason.

 

[daniboun]

Tear down

Optional DAC

 

[HoweSound]

This is 100% true. They sell their products to people that watch Darko and Cheap Audioman videos. Most of their buyers care nothing for objective measurements and noise is probably a good thing to have because it gives it that different sound so many are looking for.

This is a cheap shot IMHO.
I had never heard of the company before I visited ASR. I bought the Schitt Freya S, based solely on Amir's reviews (there were two). It is an excellent pre-amp at modest cost with great functionality and has served me well for several years.

 

[TNT]

And filtering/frequency response:

Why do a reference in the picture to "24 kHz"? What's with that particular frequency? Its has nothing to do with the sampling theorem / used Fs, which was 44,1. Why not 26 or 31 Khz.

Or 23?

Lacking science here...

//

 

[Mocie]

Glad the mystery is solved, seems like a lot of compromises in the worst way to jam the card in. Tracks with other forums too, who concluded hooking it up to a modi or another DAC was better measurement wise. Also seconding the Synapse - they'll take LEDs out too if you don't like it.

Thanks for the re-review.

 

[amirm]

Why do a reference in the picture to "24 kHz"? What's with that particular frequency?

The implementation universally used by almost everyone. It allows a less steep filter. Yes, some amount of imaging components are passed through, relying on lack of energy in musical content from 20 kHz and up. If a DAC does have a sharp filter at 22.05 kHz, then it will garner higher praise from me. Conversely, the slow filters in some DACs get a damning remark.

 

[Roland301]

I can recommend the Adum3160 Usb Isolator. I have a Fosi Q6 DAC (two channel music) and a Sound Blaster X4 (5.1 for movies). When both are connected to my Fosi ZP3 preamp I could hear digital noise 1m away from the speakers. Unplugging either would remove the noise. The USB isolater inline with the Q6 solved the problem.

A really cheap solution.

https://www.takealot.com/adum3160-usb-isolator-module-usb-to-usb-voltage-isolator-module/PLID99932948

The ADUM3160 IC does not fully support USB 2.0 High Speed devices, which is most modern DACs that use USB Audio Class 2.0.
It only full supports USB 1.1 "Low Speed" and "Full Speed" devices, with "support" for USB 2.0 only on devices that can fall back to those modes.

The USB 2.0 High Speed isolation ICs are more expensive, but devices with them do exist.
JDS Synapse or Topping HS02 use such ICs, to name a few.

I can confirm that USB isolators do work. They've resolved several audible USB-related noise and ground loop problems for me before.

 

[welwynnick]

Thanks for the review Amir, and thanks for the extra digging. That seems to be a necessity with a lot of Schiit products. Good value on the surface, but flaky underneath.
It sounds familiar - whenever there's any discussion of USB noise or isolation or filtering, the Schiit Modi 2 pops up as it's almost uniquely susceptible.
However there are other quirks like a performance dependency on the driver, a big difference between USB and SPDIF, and recurring instances of poor jitter control:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ifi-ipurifier3-usb-filter-review.41389/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/audioquest-jitterbug-usb-filter-review.10205/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/schiit-modi-3-review-stereo-dac.18480/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-schiit-modi-3-dac.4742/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/budget-dac-review-schiit-modi-2-99.1649/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...t-dac-review-schiit-modi-2-99.1649/post-54623
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...eview-and-measurements.1829/page-2#post-46217

OK it's cheap, but it's actually hard to find any cheap DAC that behaves like this.
Schiit use an APx555 themselves, so you'd think or hope that they'd be all over this.

 

[somebodyelse]

Optional DAC

That's clearly the wrong DAC board. Different name, different USB connector and different pin connections to the main board.

 

[solderdude]

 

[daniboun]

That's clearly the wrong DAC board. Different name, different USB connector and different pin connections to the main board.

Thanks for the correction

 

[somebodyelse]

The ADUM3160 IC does not fully support USB 2.0 High Speed devices, which is most modern DACs that use USB Audio Class 2.0.
It only full supports USB 1.1 "Low Speed" and "Full Speed" devices, with "support" for USB 2.0 only on devices that can fall back to those modes.

The ADUM3165 is the newer version that supports High Speed, and seems to have been picked for the new generation of low cost isolators instead of TI's broadly equivalent part. See DSD Tech SH-G01L among others around £30.

 

[DSJR]

if I remember it right, Jason has said in his blog on HeadFi, that he finds 'me too' conventional solutions boring (or words to that effect), so has huge fun and angst doing things his way over many often blind alleys (that he admits to). In a way I applaud that and do understand that 'sinad chasing' is more for us here than for he and his faithful customers. I do still hope that as the company continues to grow (I believe it is), that better solutions can come about, even if it means returning to well trodden paths to get the desired effect.

My computer gear here is geriatric in the extreme, although it works for me (just). No idea at all what kind of muck comes out of the USB sockets. Modern computers/tablets/phones even, may well have loads of unwanted muck spraying out and I'd respectfully suggest that more attention MUST be carried out to isolate better, even if it means biting the bullet and using more conventional means to achieve this...