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No need to be an absolutist to be a spectator of improvements in electronic implementation and signal transmission in audio devices. In the Olympics, you don't need to love the gold medalist to admit it won an event while cheering for your favorite athlete... Consider "shitting on bad products" to be simply bad personal form. I don't think it's aligned with the goal of ASR.
I've re-read this...I'm not really sure what you're wanting to convey in the second part of this. My main point through all of this thread has just been to say, that while the latest Magni+DAC may have a flaw, it's quite unfair and inaccurate to say that ergo, all products made by Schiit are bad ones and measure poorly.
Measurements are the focus of the forum, sure, that's without question. Since many product have or approach transparency, then features, appearance, functionality, fit to one's specific needs or wants and other factors come into play for people deciding whether to buy or not buy.
My main point through all of this thread has just been to say, that while the latest Magni+DAC may have a flaw, it's quite unfair and inaccurate to say that ergo, all products made by Schiit are bad ones and measure poorly.
That's fair. I was under the impression that the thread was mostly about this specific schiit product being bad from a measurement standpoint, not all of the entire brand (that would be a little off topic).
I have nothing against schiit personally. I was curious to just hear their discreet-type work on the asgard 3 (or something) at some point.
And also you keep focusing on what you perceive as their mantra. But that’s not really their entire business model or thought process. They do discreet and they do sort of champion that to a point, but that’s not the whole thing. In fact, their new $300 dac, Mimir using opamps is actually very good sounding and has been received well.
I wasn’t saying this to question your knowledge, I respect that. I just meant without actually having it you cannot be positive.
Professionals can disagree about designs, technology differences, etc. That is very normal. But as designers their track record is pretty good. They are providing good products for reasonable prices, and people do utilize them happily.
The measurements are clear about this. The only way to get such measurements is by an oopsy in the design of the ground layout.
And I never once mentioned Schiit is making bad products nor that their prices aren't reasonable and that they are not usable nor that people don't enjoy them.
I have no idea why you pulled that out of your hat in response to me.
Amir reluctantly recommended the Unity amp and was of the opinion that Schiit should do better with the DAC add-on card and this is what is actually the case.
They should do better and could easily have done better... even at that price point.
Also I repeatedly mentioned the amp design is fine and the DAC card is even O.K. and even mentioned that in most cases the issue is not even audible.
I quite like the 'toilet' humor as well.
I merely remarked that I found it funny that amps should be/are 'discrete' and in DACs it is perfectly fine to use op-amps there.
Lot more are "utilizing" them due to their clever marketing on head-fi. Lot less would be engaging with them if they knew the reality. Example: that their $2K DACs aren't worth anything like that. You can get similar if not better performance for 15% of the cost. But that message won't get through past their strong marketing. We have made a dent into that with our testing but we are not focused on them, like they are focused on their customers to sell them concepts without value.
My daily driver CD player is a Meridian 208 and I was curious about how if at all advances in DAC tech might effect audible improvements in more modern players, to the extent that I subbed out the 208 for a CD player from the same stable but a generation more advanced: the Marantz CD42.
My conclusion? The two players sound the same
Don't close down ASR, fools and their money will always be easily parted. The point is to educate people in general so that there are less fools. You have to think about how likely all of us WERE fools at some point in our lives in something. This is why ASR is so valuable, people can come here and learn about the actual science and avoid all the smoke and mirrors and scams.
Not true. I have both Byggy (Yggdrasil Singular) and the More is Better DAC board. Byggy board is 100% discrete analog stage through and through while More is Better is Op-amp. Yes, More is Better measures far better than the Singular.
Byggy Linearity graph only shows roughly 100 dB SINAD
It is getting a lot of positive press from many users and online reviewers, I believe it released last Spring. Look forward to your testing one in the future if someone sends one in.
It is getting a lot of positive press from many users and online reviewers, I believe it released last Spring. Look forward to your testing one in the future if someone sends one in.
Unfortunately that has proven to mean nothing. Remember audio-GD? Tons of great reviews and it was all just BS.
It's even worse when major audio forums delete bad reviews and complaints from posters.
I happen to have one and listen to it. Daily . on other forms people who own it also made some comments which are positive. Isn’t that what people are doing here also? People talk about the items they own sometimes positively sometimes negatively so that’s what I’m going by. And also my personal experience.
Lot more are "utilizing" them due to their clever marketing on head-fi. Lot less would be engaging with them if they knew the reality. Example: that their $2K DACs aren't worth anything like that. You can get similar if not better performance for 15% of the cost. But that message won't get through past their strong marketing. We have made a dent into that with our testing but we are not focused on them, like they are focused on their customers to sell them concepts without value.
Been reflecting on this comment. It seems counterproductive to the overall aims of the site for any of us to generalize about a manufacturer. I think the point has been made that some Schiit products measure better than others. But it does vary, by your own testing. Therefore, I like to keep an open mind and evaluate each product as it comes. But then I don't generally buy new items right away, wait for the dust to settle. And a lot of quality audio manufacturers sell "expensive and unnecessary for good sound stuff" as well as inexpensive.
Lot more are "utilizing" them due to their clever marketing on head-fi. Lot less would be engaging with them if they knew the reality. Example: that their $2K DACs aren't worth anything like that. You can get similar if not better performance for 15% of the cost. But that message won't get through past their strong marketing. We have made a dent into that with our testing but we are not focused on them, like they are focused on their customers to sell them concepts without value.
Your positions, and opinions are well established, and have some validity to a point. IMO. Just like beauty, value is in the eye of the beholder, or this case ear. People can choose to purchase and make their decision. Not everyone are clueless sheep. In this hobby, I would say more people, are of the subjective leaning, as to being purely objective. I try to be balanced and use logic to guide my decisions.
Well, that’s more of a complex compound concept than you might realize when you ask the question. Although this is a private entity, not publicly owned and operated. The owner has pure authority and decision making on that point. In the US, a purely public space is governed by the constitution, and then hopefully one’s rights are able to be exercise fully. But even that has come into question lately.
Looking at it further since we’re talking about listening, an audio hobby. Where there is a major subjective component involved, the listening experience, enjoyment, being involved in the music and happiness, at least one hopes for happiness. In my opinion, listening, opinions, can be discussed. But that’s my opinion.
The back and forth between members on these points of difference, are a significant part of the discussion here. Since discussion is what this is, I guess there is some benefit to everyone sharing.
