Schiit Magni Heresy

[Thomas savage]

I appreciate the kind words. We are genuinely interested in making high quality equipment that is affordable and desirable. However, we also like making products that are interesting and fun to us. This is what brings us back to work each day. It's why this company has been a lot of fun to work at for five years. This telos has defined us. Some people love us for that, others don't. I get it.

I think Magni Heresy, as well as the published measurements we have put out of late, is proof positive that your concerns were heard. We like being ridiculous but we also need a consumer base that is satisfied with their purchase. I think Heresy is the manifestation of those ideas.

Kudos to you, especially when you could get away with doing less.

Absolutely brilliant marketing strategy too, fully taking advantage of online forums and social media in creating such a strong brand.

And audio should be fun , it's a frivolous passion after all.

 

[T.M.Noble]

I don't think Schiit has anything to worry about sending in stuff like Modi3, Magni3 and Heresy.
1: They also measure it using AP555 and know for certain it will measure well = good review, no beheaded Panther.
2: There is no power supply in the devices so there will be no safety issues = good review
3: Very affordable and good looking (to me) = win.

This is excellent advertising for certain Schiit stuff (and rightfully so in that case) on the website that is said to be anti Schiit.
It is often said ASR are Schiit haters... 'we' are not.
When something measures poorly or there are concerns it is ruthlessly shown.
When something can be shown to be overly expensive or snake-oil then it is exposed as such.
When it measures great it is lauded and recommended.
Regardless of brand.

It may be another matter when scrutinizing mains fed stuff and R2R with all its technical challenges so to speak.
Schiit cannot go/do wrong with the mentioned budget devices (nor with Sys, Hel (providing decent USB), Mani etc.)

The only thing I wonder about is why you guys do not simply add DC protection on your amps.
One IC does it all and costs next to nothing compared to the already used relay.

I know that it isn't really needed when one has a Schiit stack and chances are the mentioned devices rarely, if ever, fail catastrophically taking out headphones but consider the fact that at some point someone will connect something that does have DC and kills his headphone without knowing or warning. You can save folks such hardship and avoid embarrassment and negative publicity.

Let's be clear I actually like Schiit, their humor and the down to earth approach.

This is one of the reason's I decided to have a Schiit presence (this company's name really is the gift that keeps on giving) on this forum. I appreciate the candor and criticism.

With regards to DC protection: All of our larger units, (Lyr 3, Mjolnir 2, Aegir, Vidar, Ragnarok ) all have DC protection. As for the smaller units and those designed to be competitively priced, we have not found it necessary in testing to have that same protection. This testing has involved almost half a million units sold. We are confident in our products and we are here to make sure our customers get their monies worth, even in the case of damaged property. Of the very few times a Schiit amp has damaged a customers property, we have, on multiple occasions, reimbursed or purchased new headphones for those customers. This isn't even part of our liability policy but we want to make it right for our customers. If anyone has had this issue or an issue like it, I would be more than happy to connect you with the people who can set it right.

 

[Hemi-Demon]

Good things are happening. Wish to see a comparison of Heresy with JDS Labs Atom. Can’t wait to see the review!

https://www.headphones.com/blogs/ne...-heresy-headphone-amplifier-review-comparison

 

[LTig]

With regards to DC protection: All of our larger units, (Lyr 3, Mjolnir 2, Aegir, Vidar, Ragnarok ) all have DC protection. As for the smaller units and those designed to be competitively priced, we have not found it necessary in testing to have that same protection. This testing has involved almost half a million units sold. We are confident in our products and we are here to make sure our customers get their monies worth, even in the case of damaged property. Of the very few times a Schiit amp has damaged a customers property, we have, on multiple occasions, reimbursed or purchased new headphones for those customers. This isn't even part of our liability policy but we want to make it right for our customers. If anyone has had this issue or an issue like it, I would be more than happy to connect you with the people who can set it right.

I appreciate your approach and understand the financial calculation. However with headphones becoming crazy expensive ($4000 or more, and I own a HD800 for € 1200) if such a headphone is blown by one of your $100 head amps you have to sell many of the latter to pay for the former.

 

[amirm]

I like to encourage the membership to take it easy on TK. I remember the first time I met with Philips to get our audio format into their products. They spent an hour screaming in my ears about what other bad deals the rest of Microsoft had done as if I was representing them. Let's use this as a fresh start with respect to our combined relationship with Schiit and see where it takes us....

 

[makmeksam]

https://www.headphones.com/blogs/ne...-heresy-headphone-amplifier-review-comparison

Thanks for the link. They have taken a subjective approach. I would like to see amir's objective comparison too.

 

[solderdude]

The overall end results were interesting:

• I could not audibly discriminate between the Magni Heresy, Atom or Archel 2 Pro at all.
• I could discern audible differences between Magni Heresy, Magni 3+, Magni 3 and Liquid Spark.
• When the same amplifier was both “A” and “B”, there were no instances of falsely registering any audible difference.

That seems real to me but do question the second bulletpoint.
This simply means that given the price performance ratio the Heresy will come out on top and the final decision to buy any of those devices is:

• power needed
• looks
• functionality (gain switch, in/out capabilities)

Schiit coming out on top in the cheap yet excellent category.
Audiophiles will still be claiming audible differences and buy something else.

 

[makmeksam]

The only thing I wonder about is why you guys do not simply add DC protection on your amps.
One IC does it all and costs next to nothing compared to the already used relay.

I know that it isn't really needed when one has a Schiit stack and chances are the mentioned devices rarely, if ever, fail catastrophically taking out headphones but consider the fact that at some point someone will connect something that does have DC and kills his headphone without knowing or warning. You can save folks such hardship and avoid embarrassment and negative publicity.

What kind of technical failures other than DC in the input can harm headphones when the amp does not have DC protection?

 

[JohnYang1997]

What kind of technical failures other than DC in the input can harm headphones when the amp does not have DC protection?

When any stage in the amplifier fails shorting to rail, your headphones will be destroyed.

 

[makmeksam]

When any stage in the amplifier fails shorting to rail, your headphones will be destroyed.

I am not sure if this is too much to ask. Do you have any link to a simple diagram or something to understand this?

Btw. JDS Labs Atom also seems to have this problem according to what I read from their website. https://blog.jdslabs.com/2018/11/jds-labs-atom-amp-official-release-benchmarks/

 

[solderdude]

What kind of technical failures other than DC in the input can harm headphones when the amp does not have DC protection?

As JohnYang said. When an opamp fails or a power supply rail fails chances are there could be anything between a little to the max internal voltage rail in DC voltage on the output.
I have seen opamps go faulty this way so is not just hypothetical but very rare.

This goes for all amplifiers, even input capacitor coupled amplifiers and could even happen in a DAC for instance giving DC on its output.
Only devices with output capacitors (rated at the full voltage rail) and output transformers are exempt by nature.

Not to worry, happens very rarely and when there is no DC protection present Schiit will probably pay for the damage IF you can prove their (in that case faulty) amp was the culprit.

 

[Cahudson42]

Only devices with output capacitors (rated at the full voltage rail) and output transformers are exempt by nature.

@solderdude

If you have $3000 HP, and this lack of DC protection keeps you awake at night, why couldn't you make it capacitor coupled by interposing a couple electrolytics cabled between the Schiit output and your HP?

 

[adc]

When any stage in the amplifier fails shorting to rail, your headphones will be destroyed.

I wasn't familiar with that failure mode before today, but it sure sounds unpleasant. And, um, expensive. Perhaps any time in future that my output goes unexpectedly dead, I should check it with a multimeter before plugging in another pair of valuable headphones?

 

[makmeksam]

@solderdude

If you have $3000 HP, and this lack of DC protection keeps you awake at night, why couldn't you make it capacitor coupled by interposing a couple electrolytics cabled between the Schiit output and your HP?

I think doing this defeats the purpose of DC coupling. That is to avoid capacitors in the signal path that could affect the sound. (However, I don't know whether capacitors can actually negatively affect the sound despite many manufacturers imply that.)

 

[restorer-john]

There's absolutely no excuse whatsoever not to have DC relay protection in any amplifier. That said, it's a $99 headphone amplifier and surely it's unlikely people are going to be matching it with $3k headphones.

 

[makmeksam]

I wasn't familiar with that failure mode before today, but it sure sounds unpleasant. And, um, expensive. Perhaps any time in future that my output goes unexpectedly dead, I should check it with a multimeter before plugging in another pair of valuable headphones?

By the time you check with the multimeter, the already plugged in pair of headphones will be dead.

 

[restorer-john]

If you have $3000 HP, and this lack of DC protection keeps you awake at night, why couldn't you make it capacitor coupled by interposing a couple electrolytics cabled between the Schiit output and your HP?

You could do that, but the capacitor will make an almighty thump through the headphones every time you turn the unit on with headphones connected. If you turn it on without headphones connected and then plug them in, it will be a loud crack. Neither is very pleasant. You would need a medium value resistor to 0v to allow the caps to charge to half rail in a single rail supply amp.

In a bridged output amplifier you'd need two caps.

The best way is to isolate the headphones from the power source in a DC event. That can achieved in various ways.

 

[adc]

By the time you check with the multimeter, the already plugged in pair of headphones will be dead.

Right; what I mean is, if unexplained silence occurs, "check for DC at the headphone jack" should probably come before "try another pair of headphones" in the troubleshooting flowchart ...

 

[solderdude]

@solderdude

If you have $3000 HP, and this lack of DC protection keeps you awake at night, why couldn't you make it capacitor coupled by interposing a couple electrolytics cabled between the Schiit output and your HP?

There is a snag when doing this.
The output is 0V (so no big thumbs or anything on switching on/off it will be completely silent) but in order to get a good LF extension you would need to put 2 electrolytic caps of say 2200uF/25V in antiseries or use a single bipolar (non polar) electrolytic.
These capacitors will have to be electrolytics and to work properly they would like to have a DC voltage on them otherwise they would induce measurable distortion that defeats the purpose of the low distortion amps.
When they would be inside they could be in the overall feedback loop but here they can't be.
So... yes, you can do this but would not recommend it.

 

[Cahudson42]

The best way is to isolate the headphones from the power source in a DC event. That can achieved in various ways.

Say a voltage detection circuit that triggers a physical disconnect relay after detecting what? 5v? For x Ms?

Or simpler, a fuse with current value computed from HP impedance and HP power limitation? (say 1w?)

Or?

Are these going to be fast enough?

Certainly an ASR member could suggest an inexpensive aftermarket solution?