Schiit Loki Mini+ Equalizer Review

[audiotron]

Another Schiitty product from the Schiit shop!

 

[PeteL]

I simply turned each control to the right to 3:00 o'clock position and showed the frequency response. Since you are not likely to want to boost them even more, I think that is a reasonable demonstration of what it does. At the risk of stating the obvious, I have no control over what the box does. The fact that it reduces the two ends for mid-controls is a confusing design element in the unit itself, not a problem with the graph.

Thanks Amir, not so much clearer for me tough unfortunately. Not trying to be snarky, just trying to understand. Are you really saying that for all of these filters, all 4, independently, there is zero gain nor attenuation at 1 kHz when you bring them to 3 O'clock, one by one by themselves? If the answer is no to this, and I know you will agree, how are we supposed to agree with a fact like "The fact that it reduces the two ends for mid-controls... " How do we assess that from your graph?

 

[amirm]

I don't understand your question. Once again, if you set the controls to center, you get the more or less flat line in the graph. Then turn one at a time to 3:00 o'clock and you get what is shown. In the case of middle controls, that is exactly what it did. Not much gain at 1 kHz but tilting down at both ends.

 

[dtaylo1066]

Meh. Not sure who the audience for this is. I have no tone controls in my current system. They say bands at 20Hz, 400Hz, 2kHz, 8kH. If I want EQ I would want more than four frequencies and why not just go DSP? Sorry Schiit, but I would just go mini-DSP instead.

 

[PeteL]

I don't understand your question. Once again, if you set the controls to center, you get the more or less flat line in the graph. Then turn one at a time to 3:00 o'clock and you get what is shown. In the case of middle controls, that is exactly what it did. Not much gain at 1 kHz but tilting down at both ends.

You don't understand my question, understood, it was a rhetorical question I'll make it an affirmation. I think Your graphing algorithm is making a compensation. To make it hit zero at 1K The graph of post #17 is correct, simply because that is how RC filters work. It would simply be an amazing extraordinary work from shiit to make it that any boost or cuts you do on any of these band pass, even at a random value like 3 o'clock, an additional attenuator would bring back the level magically to hit exactly 0 dB Delta at exactly 1k.

 

[mhardy6647]

It's a fundamentally goofy product.
(EDIT: Just to be clear, this is a statement of opinion - albeit strongly-held opinion - and not meant to be construed as immutable fact)

 

[amirm]

To make it hit zero at 1K The graph of post #17 is correct, simply because that is how RC filters work.

I made no attempt to align anything at 1 kHz. That is just what popped out of the experiment as I described it.

 

[PeteL]

I made no attempt to align anything at 1 kHz. That is just what popped out of the experiment as I described it.

Thanks, I hear you, but the software did it that's all, and I am just saying that it was confusing to me. That I did not understand what the EQ was doing until someone presented it differently. Those basic band pass don't attenuate and boost at the same time. They do one or the other.

 

[JohnBooty]

or even better value with the mini dsp flex

I mean, it depends on what you value. Ultimately I would see them as complimentary products.

I like analog EQs because it's e.g. nice to dial in a little more or a little less bass depending on the situation and listening material. That's the kind of thing where you want to twiddle a knob, not connect a computer and configure the DSP profile. I like to us them as tone/loudness controls, basically.

Detailed digital EQ is great because you have nearly unlimited power to shape the response for detailed room/speaker correction, etc.

 

[Newman]

Meh. Not sure who the audience for this is. I have no tone controls in my current system. They say bands at 20Hz, 400Hz, 2kHz, 8kH. If I want EQ I would want more than four frequencies and why not just go DSP? Sorry Schiit, but I would just go mini-DSP instead.

I think the idea, as far as there being a need, is sound, but the execution is not done in the most useful way.

The idea is, do all your system EQ with a powerful DSP system, and lock it in. You may have a handful of presets for certain situations.

Then have a separate program tone control that allows crude but quick and easy compensation for less-than-ideal program content sound quality, including badly mastered recordings.

The program tone control needs to be:-

1. instantly accessible, not buried in menus
2. only a few seconds to adjust, not complex
3. smooth 'dial by ear' adjustment
4. instantly resettable to zero or bypass
5. based on 'shelf-and knee' approach, not bandpass lumps and bumps

Toole speaks about the high utility of such a control, and referenced the old quad preamps as having the right idea.

IMO this sort of device could allocate its 4 dials to: bass shelf amplitude, bass knee frequency, treble knee frequency, treble shelf amplitude. That would do the trick.

The target audience would be all of us.

cheers

 

[pma]

Looks a lot like:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-tone-controls-review-and-measurements.44930/

Whoa, that's cool. A 1970s consumer hifi tone control in its own box!

Competition .

 

[Mart68]

have you checked the used market? Some ten band eqs there for not much, but I'm in the US.

I'm planning to measure the one I have, just saving up for equipment.

I'm in the UK and bought a used 16 band Klark Teknik for £100 ($120). This product makes no sense to me either on function or price. The secondary market is awash with cheap professional units. If someone wants analogue EQ do it properly or not at all.

 

[PeteL]

I'm in the UK and bought a used 16 band Klark Teknik for £100 ($120). This product makes no sense to me either on function or price. The secondary market is awash with cheap professional units. If someone wants analogue EQ do it properly or not at all.

You are allowed to not have need for this or to not like it, but it's a totally different use case. This here is made to be played with all the time, In real time, to your taste, Like a volume control you reach out to. Your 16 bands, should normally take time to adjust, should even better yet be used with measurements, should be tailored to something that you want to correct in your system. And then 16 bands is actually quite limited for this. You have to know what you are doing to use a high band count graphic EQ, not this, you just need to know what you'd like to hear more of.

 

[AVKS]

You are allowed to not have need for this or to not like it, but it's a totally different use case. This here is made to be played with all the time, In real time, to your taste, Like a volume control you reach out to. Your 16 bands, should normally take time to adjust, should even better yet be used with measurements, should be tailored to something that you want to correct in your system. And then 16 bands is actually quite limited for this. You have to know what you are doing to use a high band count graphic EQ, not this, you just need to know what you'd like to hear more of.

Precisely, and it fits right on a desk within arm's reach. What you describe is exactly how I use my Lokius and it's great for that purpose.

 

[IAmAlwaysSerious]

What do these bands look like with only 1 or 2db of boost/attenuation instead of turning them to max? It obviously looks incredibly broad when you're boosting one end by 12db. I can't imagine anybody is going to like the sound of their system turning any of these knobs to their extremes.

I've lent my loki mini out to a friend after making those graphs, but I might be able to make a graph like that this weekend.

I actually did turn a knob all the way up or down at times, it was more useful than might be expected for games or as a quick and dirty high pass filter. I haven't really tried that on the lokius I use now.

 

[renaudrenaud]

1. have you an example of such software?
2. can you suggest a piece of hardware that is user friendly does not require a computer and can be set up for easily access by our families

A Radxa SBC and Daphile, you can control the player with your phone or via a web browser.

1. have you an example of such software?
2. can you suggest a piece of hardware that is user friendly does not require a computer and can be set up for easily access by our families

A Radxa SBC with some x86 and Daphile. You can control the player with some free app in your phone or via some web browser from a tablet or a PC or another SBC etc...

Many years ago I bought an atomic pi for 35$ and it's plenty enough power for Daphile.

But I prefer to use arm things, waiting for RISC-V solutions.

 

[IAmAlwaysSerious]

I simply turned each control to the right to 3:00 o'clock position and showed the frequency response. Since you are not likely to want to boost them even more, I think that is a reasonable demonstration of what it does. At the risk of stating the obvious, I have no control over what the box does. The fact that it reduces the two ends for mid-controls is a confusing design element in the unit itself, not a problem with the graph.

I think your software has generates a misleading graph. It's showing the difference in frequency response between all knobs centered and any given knob turned, yes. The problem is that it's representing all the results as relative to 1khz.

That is, if the DUT boosts 1khz by 5 dB and doesn't change 100hz or 1khz, then the graph seems misleading if it shows that 1khz didn't change while 100hz and 10khz dropped by 5dB. It's not really wrong (in a relative sense), just very hard to parse. These numbers chosen only for illustration.

The third knob on the Loki Mini will either boost or cut with a center frequency of ~2khz, and has very nearly no effect on the output of 20hz or 20khz.
Your graph makes it appear that the third knob has nearly no effect on 2khz and in fact drops or boosts the extremes of the frequency band. That's not how my Loki Mini or my Lokius work.

My graph is on the first page here, so it should clarify for most people, I hope.

Anyways, the testing work is much appreciated.

 

[jbattman1016]

If someone wants analogue EQ do it properly or not at all.

People have amps/systems with no tone controls (obvious) and just an affordable EQ to bring the whole system together. As others have stated, when using an EQ usually +/-3dB is all one needs for a particular feq band, even if the product can do +/-12dB, adjustments that extreme are not too normal. This all depends on the application in the end.

 

[pma]

People have amps/systems with no tone controls (obvious) and just an affordable EQ to bring the whole system together. As others have stated, when using an EQ usually +/-3dB is all one needs for a particular feq band, even if the product can do +/-12dB, adjustments that extreme are not too normal. This all depends on the application in the end.

These simple controls are useful to correct mastering and speaker balance imperfections.

 

[dtaylo1066]

I think the idea, as far as there being a need, is sound, but the execution is not done in the most useful way.

The idea is, do all your system EQ with a powerful DSP system, and lock it in. You may have a handful of presets for certain situations.

Then have a separate program tone control that allows crude but quick and easy compensation for less-than-ideal program content sound quality, including badly mastered recordings.

The program tone control needs to be:-

1. instantly accessible, not buried in menus
2. only a few seconds to adjust, not complex
3. smooth 'dial by ear' adjustment
4. instantly resettable to zero or bypass
5. based on 'shelf-and knee' approach, not bandpass lumps and bumps

Toole speaks about the high utility of such a control, and referenced the old quad preamps as having the right idea.

IMO this sort of device could allocate its 4 dials to: bass shelf amplitude, bass knee frequency, treble knee frequency, treble shelf amplitude. That would do the trick.

The target audience would be all of us.

cheers

I see and recognize your point. Thanks. I have never been one much for tone control usage in my system, and I don't listen on headphones, so perhaps my POV is a bit off center.