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Schiit Heresy hot treble?

Rayman30

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So I was switching between A. Schiit Modi3 and Magni3 and B. Topping D50S and Schiit Heresy with my Sundara and HD-650, I noticed that I preferred the HD-650 on the Heresy but the Sundara on the Schiit Stack.

Observations:

HD-650 sounds better on the Heresy due to the combination of high detail retrieval and hotter treble negating some of the warmth and darkness of the HD-650
Sundara being a brighter headphone, is being tamed by the Schiit stack's laid back sound signature.

I simply cannot stand the Sundara with the Heresy, and I am wondering if I should look into another amp to maybe meet in the middle with detail and warmth, Schiit Magni 3+ ?
 

majingotan

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Have you performed volume matched double blind A-B testing with the Heresy and Magni 3? Then again subjectively speaking, Magni 3 (not the 3+) might not have enough power for the Sundara thus rolling off in the upper registers and maybe even the lowest registers while Heresy is just portraying the "truer" (still subjective) FR of the Sundara. Unless there's a professionally measured FR graph of Sundara from both amps with volume matching, then I can only speculate of what you're hearing without performing a 19/20 correct choice under DBT volume matched test.
 
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Rayman30

Rayman30

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No I do not have the equipment for that, but I notice a sound signature difference with both cans on the Heresy vs. Magni 3.
 

KeithPhantom

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No I do not have the equipment for that, but I notice a sound signature difference with both cans on the Heresy vs. Magni 3.
I have an Asgard 3 (a larger Magni 3(+) and a Heresy) and I don't notice any difference.
 
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Rayman30

Rayman30

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I understand this is not very scientific, but I do not think its my imagination, I had my friend A/B and he had the same experience, but like
majingotan said, it could be the difference in power.
 
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Rayman30

Rayman30

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I understand you guys are hard a$$es on measurements, I can respect that, question: If the power differences are the culprit, should I try a Magni 3+ ? with the Modi3, retest and see if I hear something different?
 
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dfuller

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Well I can see that what I’m hearing is completely my imagination, and that It was wrong for expressing my experiences with this hardware, thanks everyone!
Yeah... this is one of the things that bugs me. You can have a device that measures flat, but its distortion vs frequency plot may very well be different. Not only that, but dist vs frequency is probably the most critical factor in how equally-measuring devices in every other way could sound different.


If anything, I think the Heresy probably has less distortion overall but potentially more at high frequencies, which might be what you're hearing.

Apparently the 3+ being darker than the Heresy is not an isolated view - Schiit's own rep on here said exactly the same thing you did.
 
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zermak

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Yeah... this is one of the things that bugs me. You can have a device that measures flat, but its distortion vs frequency plot may very well be different. Not only that, but dist vs frequency is probably the most critical factor in how equally-measuring devices in every other way could sound different.


If anything, I think the Heresy probably has less distortion overall but potentially more at high frequencies, which might be what you're hearing.

Apparently the 3+ being darker than the Heresy is not an isolated view - Schiit's own rep on here said exactly the same thing you did.
What?
They are both dead flat up to 40kHz...
index.php
 

Matias

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How about distortion products may affect how we perceive tonality even though the main tone is flat on both? Just a theory.
 

dfuller

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What?
They are both dead flat up to 40kHz...
That is frequency response, not distortion vs frequency.
How about distortion products may affect how we perceive tonality even though the main tone is flat on both? Just a theory.
That's what I'm saying.
For the sake of it, These are the headphone amps in a bunch of budget interfaces from the shootout done by Julian Krause. All are within 1 dB of being flat 20-20k (and the rolloff is only on some, at 30hz or lower).
firefox-2020-07-17-22-11-22.png

Distortion products... not so much. The roll off is due to bandwidth limitations in Julian's measurements.
firefox-2020-07-17-22-11-57.png


I can tell you from experience that these do not sound the same, and the dist vs frequency plot backs that up!
 
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KeithPhantom

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Yeah... this is one of the things that bugs me. You can have a device that measures flat, but its distortion vs frequency plot may very well be different. Not only that, but dist vs frequency is probably the most critical factor in how equally-measuring devices in every other way could sound different.


If anything, I think the Heresy probably has less distortion overall but potentially more at high frequencies, which might be what you're hearing.

Apparently the 3+ being darker than the Heresy is not an isolated view - Schiit's own rep on here said exactly the same thing you did.
We are talking about differences in distortion about -100 dBFS of the fundamental, and it is extremely unlikely that anyone is able to detect these, but a blind test will clear your view if you may try it.
 

dfuller

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From own's Schiit measurements on their PDFs both are well below 100dB.
Magni+, Heresy; page 12 for both.
Yes indeed. However, I was technically correct. The Heresy does show a slight rise in distortion at higher frequencies. Whether or not that's audible, I couldn't tell you - I'd say probably not. The 3+ on the other hand does not have that distortion rise.
 

KeithPhantom

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Yes indeed. However, I was technically correct. The Heresy does show a slight rise in distortion at higher frequencies. Whether or not that's audible, I couldn't tell you - I'd say probably not. The 3+ on the other hand does not have that distortion rise.
We're talking about differences that are even below the distortion of your transducers, thus I would expect you hearing distortion from your tranducers (even masking it) before you hear that slight rise. Right now, the best investment is to improve the transducer technology and their measurements. 1% or more in many dynamic headphones is just way too high compared to our electronics, and we're not able to consistently get below 0.1% with most tranducers (mostly with commercial/non-audiophile stuff). Many are able to even get to 0.01%, but that's for some frequencies and as spikes. There's better reward and improvements are more likely to be more audible than anything -100 dBFS.
 
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Tks

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Yes indeed. However, I was technically correct. The Heresy does show a slight rise in distortion at higher frequencies. Whether or not that's audible, I couldn't tell you - I'd say probably not. The 3+ on the other hand does not have that distortion rise.
Id wager anything no one here can pick up on the slight distortion toward the highs as shown here.
 

zermak

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Yes indeed. However, I was technically correct. The Heresy does show a slight rise in distortion at higher frequencies. Whether or not that's audible, I couldn't tell you - I'd say probably not. The 3+ on the other hand does not have that distortion rise.
The rise is there but to say that the Heresy is warm on the high frequecies is exagerated (my humble opinion).
I can't even imagine which dB SPL you should listen to, to detect that distortion and as someone has said already the transducer more likely will fail (meaning have higher distortions than the signal itself) way before reaching such sound pressures (120dB SPL(?) at least on a headphone, and I doubt you could detect it in a house environment with loudspeakers considering the already higher base noise).
 
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Rayman30

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Lots of good debate here, I appreciate it truly, even if I was a little put off initially by the posts dismissing my subjective findings. Think I may switch gears alltogether and get a different amp other than Schiit made, any suggestions for less than $200? was thinking Geshelli? or maybe even just different phones?

One day Il have a pair of ZMF Aeolus or Clears, I guess il have to start playing the lottery.
 

majingotan

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Geshelli Erish should fit the bill in your case
 
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Rayman30

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Topping A50 might be a good match for my D50S, not seeing many reviews on it though.
 
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