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Schiit Freya S Preamplifier Review 2

Rottmannash

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Yawnny

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Managed to snag a Freya S with the welcome surprise of being back in stock :)

Ive been playing with it this weekend. I’ve noticed some odd almost “micro pauses” in the music when adjusting the relay knob. It seems like the pauses could almost be perceived as a soft “pop” if changing the volume knob fast enough.

I notice this audibly both through speakers and headphones

is this the nature of a relay stepped attenuator, that the sound sort of cuts out then back in really quickly as the relays switch? Not sure if this started concerning anyone else.

Does this sound normal?
 

Helicopter

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Managed to snag a Freya S with the welcome surprise of being back in stock :)

Ive been playing with it this weekend. I’ve noticed some odd almost “micro pauses” in the music when adjusting the relay knob. It seems like the pauses could almost be perceived as a soft “pop” if changing the volume knob fast enough.

I notice this audibly both through speakers and headphones

is this the nature of a relay stepped attenuator, that the sound sort of cuts out then back in really quickly as the relays switch? Not sure if this started concerning anyone else.

Does this sound normal?
I don't get anything electronic from the attenuator. The mechanical sound is only at the device. I suppose you could have something microphonic in the stream, or a problem with the Freya.

Make sure the sound is really coming through outputs of Freya. I would make a recording on the PC and see if it is there, but I already have cables and an interface for that. Not sure what you have on hand for process of elimination.

Maybe try some different interconnect cables and see if that helps. (I know, I know...) Maybe try different source and amp too. If that doesn't eliminate the electronic noise, it could be a defective unit.
 

Yawnny

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Thanks for the insight! I've been doing a little bit more testing this morning (still a lot more testing to go on my end).

I noticed that through speakers the only real "thing" I notice is more when crossing the 12' oclock position on the knob. Does your Freya make a bigger jump in db (volume) when passing 12 o clock? I find that at this step the bigger jump either "seems" to make a small little pop (not exaggerated by any means) or it's just the perception I have of a bigger change in volume compared to the steps on either side of 12 'oclock

Tested this in Passive and both Nexus gain stages.. same behavior while crossing 12 'oclock

FYI My speakers are the Buchardt S300 MK II, and Power Amp is the Schiit Vidar,

I switched the Source from my ID44 audio interface to the Modi3+ DAC and noticed the same behavior. I am running the Outputs of the Freya into a SYS (which I'm running in reverse.. ie: 2 outputs 1 input) so that's gonna come out of the chain right away to test.

One question I did have @Helicopter . Do you run your Freya into a headphone amp as well? I was testing running into my IEMagni this morning and you definitely notice a more pronounce jumps in volume (maybe small "pops"..disconnects/reconnects?) as you work your way up to 12 .. where-as speakers barely seem to pick this up.

For reference, Here's a video I recorded to try and explain the issue

My phone really didn't pick up the "issue" very well..but oh well.. the more reference material the better imo.

EDIT:

Newer vid showing this better.. single tone playing you can hear more jarring ups and downs as I go over 12 and back with as small steps as I can with the knob.

I had a very interesting find this morning while googling this issue though. There's a ZReviews video for the OG Freya that to my surprise actually touched on what seems to be the exact "thing" I'm hearing. Described in the video as very small disconnects/reconnects as the relays physically jump up. That certainly describes what I could be hearing

First mention of what I think I'm experiencing
8:31 - 8:45 (video will take you to the right time)

2nd mention of mentioning the issue while wearing headphones
19:31 - 19:38 (video will take you to the right time)

^ does the above video seem to be explaining something that would be in a 'non-defective' unit, or would this be unique to the OG Freya and maybe a wrong example to focus on?

I also emailed Schiit about this and will update this thread with their thoughts once I hear back.
 
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Helicopter

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I don't hear anything in your video that seems different from mine. Not sure exactly how attenuator works, but maybe when you are between one setting and the next, there is less resistance and more volume than you have at either full step. If that is the case, it wouldn't be a defect, just an attribute of the attenuator, and one that never bothered me. The scale of the steps is audio/ logarithmic, so each step should sound similar in magnitude to your ears.
 

Yawnny

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I don't hear anything in your video that seems different from mine. Not sure exactly how attenuator works, but maybe when you are between one setting and the next, there is less resistance and more volume than you have at either full step. If that is the case, it wouldn't be a defect, just an attribute of the attenuator, and one that never bothered me. The scale of the steps is audio/ logarithmic, so each step should sound similar in magnitude to your ears.

Thank you! I agree any sort of jump is nearly inaudible in that video, and I may be attributing what I hear when it's through headphones to what I hear in speakers.

With my eyes closed the volume may not be jumping at 12'oclock but only the slightest disconnect/reconnect - in a matter of small small millieseconds if I had to guess. It seems so much like a bigger jump in volume than any other step before/after 12. Maybe my brains is playing tricks with me. I'm definitely leaning toward "working as designed" with it.

Have you tried running your Freya into a headphone amp by chance? The little disconnects/reconnects seem much more apparent - and sound muchmore "scratchy / poppy" when listening through headphones. It's that sound but less-so when listening through speakers.

I will update this thread with Schiits reply as well!
 

Helicopter

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Thank you! I agree any sort of jump is nearly inaudible in that video, and I may be attributing what I hear when it's through headphones to what I hear in speakers.

With my eyes closed the volume may not be jumping at 12'oclock but only the slightest disconnect/reconnect - in a matter of small small millieseconds if I had to guess. It seems so much like a bigger jump in volume than any other step before/after 12. Maybe my brains is playing tricks with me. I'm definitely leaning toward "working as designed" with it.

Have you tried running your Freya into a headphone amp by chance? The little disconnects/reconnects seem much more apparent - and sound muchmore "scratchy / poppy" when listening through headphones. It's that sound but less-so when listening through speakers.

I will update this thread with Schiits reply as well!
Seem pretty similar through my Heresy and Focal Utopias. I do think it might get a little louder for miliseconds between steps, but I think it is normal. Since it switches between settings, I suspect that between settings it could either have some combination of resistances in parallel, or have it shut off and then pop back on at the next setting. If that is the case, they certainly picked the right option.

... or I could be totally wrong and hearing momentary increase because I expect to. I never noticed anything before.
 

Yawnny

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Seem pretty similar through my Heresy and Focal Utopias. I do think it might get a little louder for miliseconds between steps, but I think it is normal. Since it switches between settings, I suspect that between settings it could either have some combination of resistances in parallel, or have it shut off and then pop back on at the next setting. If that is the case, they certainly picked the right option.

... or I could be totally wrong and hearing momentary increase because I expect to. I never noticed anything before.

Intriguing! I'm not sure I know what you mean by "settings" but this is likely due to how little I know about how relay stepped attenuators actually work. Is each click of a relay a different "setting" or does it go through a "setting" at a specific threshold? ie: every x db?

When you say "they certainly picked the right option" are you saying it seems the option Schiit picked was the combination of resistances in parallel?

EDIT:

I forgot I also wanted to check in on something. Did the clips below explain things in a way that makes sense to you ie: relays disconnecting / reconnecting? I wasn't sure if the reviewer is making an assumption or if what's he's saying is indeed what you'd expect to hear with relays in the mix. Maybe they also had something defective?

Reference clips:

First mention of what I think I'm experiencing
8:31 - 8:45 (video will take you to the right time)

2nd mention of mentioning the issue while wearing headphones
19:31 - 19:38 (video will take you to the right time)
 
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Laserjock

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Maybe if your speakers are super sensitive or something but I don’t see an issue since I normally don’t change volume when listening
 

Yawnny

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I had a PS1 music YouTube vid going and found a better example what going back and forth over 12 'oclock on the knob sounds like. I recorded the vid here comin' out of my Buchardt's

This is a single tone but with me going back and forth over 12 'oclock at the moment where it jumps in db, or micro disconnects/reconnects/whatever is happening. To me it's a lot more jarring than if I was going back and forth over any other point in the knob (ie: between 9-10 for example), 12 o'clock just makes it most apparent where it's not a gradual increase/decrease it's actually more of a "jumpy/poppy" increase/decrease.

This hopefully gives a better example of the worst it can get with the speakers (Buchardt S300 MK II.. not overly sensitive.. somewhat harder to drive 4ohm).. When in headphones - either my Aeon 2 Noire planars, or the Audio Technica M40X's - you hear this kind of jumpiness/disconnect/reconnect even as you are nearing 12'oclock on the knob.

Unfortunately even when in passive mode whenever I do touch the knob it's usually to go either just to 12 or over.. so it's the one position I'm floating between the most so I notice it quite a bit whenever I go to adjust (sometimes I adjust just to feel the knob.. I'm weird like that)
 

tmtomh

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I had a PS1 music YouTube vid going and found a better example what going back and forth over 12 'oclock on the knob sounds like. I recorded the vid here comin' out of my Buchardt's

This is a single tone but with me going back and forth over 12 'oclock at the moment where it jumps in db, or micro disconnects/reconnects/whatever is happening. To me it's a lot more jarring than if I was going back and forth over any other point in the knob, 12 o'clock just makes it most apparent where it's not a gradual increase/decrease it's actually more of a "jumpy/poppy" increase/decrease.

This hopefully gives a better example of the worst it can get with the speakers (Buchardt S300 MK II.. not overly sensitve.. somewhat harder to drive 4ohm).. When in headphones (either my Aeon 2 Noire planars, or the Audio Technica M40X's) and you hear this kind of jumpiness/disconnect/reconnect even as you are nearing 12'oclock on the knob

Wow, that's ugly! Sorry you are dealing with that. Curious as to what could be causing it.
 

HiFidFan

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I had a PS1 music YouTube vid going and found a better example what going back and forth over 12 'oclock on the knob sounds like. I recorded the vid here comin' out of my Buchardt's

This is a single tone but with me going back and forth over 12 'oclock at the moment where it jumps in db, or micro disconnects/reconnects/whatever is happening. To me it's a lot more jarring than if I was going back and forth over any other point in the knob (ie: between 9-10 for example), 12 o'clock just makes it most apparent where it's not a gradual increase/decrease it's actually more of a "jumpy/poppy" increase/decrease.

This hopefully gives a better example of the worst it can get with the speakers (Buchardt S300 MK II.. not overly sensitive.. somewhat harder to drive 4ohm).. When in headphones - either my Aeon 2 Noire planars, or the Audio Technica M40X's - you hear this kind of jumpiness/disconnect/reconnect even as you are nearing 12'oclock on the knob.

Unfortunately even when in passive mode whenever I do touch the knob it's usually to go either just to 12 or over.. so it's the one position I'm floating between the most so I notice it quite a bit whenever I go to adjust (sometimes I adjust just to feel the knob.. I'm weird like that)

Something is definitely wrong.
 

Yawnny

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Does anyone here have a bead on the SLA targets Schiit likes to hit for customer support response times? Comin' up on day 3 now and I haven't heard back from them. I know people can get busy just wanted other peoples input to maybe get an idea of how long to expect.

The way this Freya is handling turning up and down volume (the function it's supposed to excel at) is really starting to drive me crazy o_O
 

Laserjock

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Does anyone here have a bead on the SLA targets Schiit likes to hit for customer support response times? Comin' up on day 3 now and I haven't heard back from them. I know people can get busy just wanted other peoples input to maybe get an idea of how long to expect.

The way this Freya is handling turning up and down volume (the function it's supposed to excel at) is really starting to drive me crazy o_O
Maybe @T.M.Noble would know
 

mSpot

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Does anyone here have a bead on the SLA targets Schiit likes to hit for customer support response times? Comin' up on day 3 now and I haven't heard back from them.
Did you at least receive an immediate automated acknowledgement of your message? If not, I'd try again.
 

Yawnny

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Did you at least receive an immediate automated acknowledgement of your message? If not, I'd try again.

Yes the auto response I did receive. I originally sent a manually written email to [email protected], then a follow up email.

When I wasn't hearing a reply I thought I might have better luck using their troubleshooting/issue form you can fill out - received an automated acknowledgement for that one as well, just no further reply.

I'll give it to the end of the week and If I don't hear back I'll fill out the RA form and see how that flow is. I was hoping to have some back and forth with someone at Schiit before filling out the RA form but I don't want to sit on the Freya too long while it seems faulty.
 

T.M.Noble

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Does anyone here have a bead on the SLA targets Schiit likes to hit for customer support response times? Comin' up on day 3 now and I haven't heard back from them. I know people can get busy just wanted other peoples input to maybe get an idea of how long to expect.

The way this Freya is handling turning up and down volume (the function it's supposed to excel at) is really starting to drive me crazy o_O
You should have certainly heard back from then by now. Not knowing enough about the situation makes it difficult. Did you send the email to [email protected]?
 
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