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Schiit Freya S Preamplifier Review 2

Blur

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Is there any remarks from Schiit on what they fixed and is it going to do so on future products? I mean how do we know if our suffers from the known issue you tested earlier vs the revised version?
 

Daverz

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Is there some kind of signal that would make such a channel difference obvious?

The only measurement devices I have are a voltmeter (HP 400E) and, if we're being generous in calling it a "measurement device" a Behringer UMC202.
 

jsy

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Is there any remarks from Schiit on what they fixed and is it going to do so on future products? I mean how do we know if our suffers from the known issue you tested earlier vs the revised version?

My reading of the thread is that Schiit's take is that the unit was fine when it went out the door. At some point out in the wild, something happened to it that caused degraded performance in one channel. To demonstrate this, Schiit took a random unit out of inventory and shipped it directly to Amir, who confirmed that the new unit was within spec without variance between channels. There was no "fix".

Schiit also sent a new unit to the owner of the first test unit, despite it being out of warranty having been purchased second-hand.
 
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amirm

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Is there some kind of signal that would make such a channel difference obvious?

The only measurement devices I have are a voltmeter (HP 400E) and, if we're being generous in calling it a "measurement device" a Behringer UMC202.
Even the low performing channel is much better than your Behringer so you can't test what I found.
 

Daverz

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Even the low performing channel is much better than your Behringer so you can't test what I found.

Yeah, that's what I thought. So the user without expensive measurement equipment would have no way to tell there was such a channel difference. They certainly wouldn't hear it. Unless there is some way to get the difference to rise above the noise floor?

Note: I don't think this is some particular issue with Schiit products, just a fact of life for any consumer electronics.
 

dkinric

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@amirm, can you update the Reviews and Measurements Index for this item? Still showing a recommendation of No.
Love the sortable Indexes btw, a great addition to the library of measurements you have built up.
 

direstraitsfan98

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Is there any remarks from Schiit on what they fixed and is it going to do so on future products? I mean how do we know if our suffers from the known issue you tested earlier vs the revised version?
You wont know, unless you have an AP measurement device. :D
 
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amirm

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@amirm, can you update the Reviews and Measurements Index for this item? Still showing a recommendation of No.
Love the sortable Indexes btw, a great addition to the library of measurements you have built up.
@pozz is in charge of that. :)
 

pozz

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@pozz is in charge of that. :)
@dkinric I'll update it soon. I don't always have free time to maintain the list though, so give me a few days (in the middle of a bigger update at the moment).
 

pozz

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@amirm, can you update the Reviews and Measurements Index for this item? Still showing a recommendation of No.
Love the sortable Indexes btw, a great addition to the library of measurements you have built up.
I just updated it.

To be clear, the first review will be marked No to keep with Amir's conclusion. This "Full Update" will be marked Yes.
1582508862710.png

A larger usability update with updated categories, filters, is in the works in case anyone's wondering.
 

T.M.Noble

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Is there any remarks from Schiit on what they fixed and is it going to do so on future products? I mean how do we know if our suffers from the known issue you tested earlier vs the revised version?

This board isn't a revised version. We replaced the board with another just like it. The board tested as expected. The time and cost involved in tracking down a minor failure just isn't worth it.
 
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Pillars

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Well, the first unit was purchase second hand. Because I cannot guarantee how this unit was treated, either by the original owner or when it was shipped, its not a fair comparison. Amir needed to test one from the mother ship so I grabbed on off the rack and sent it. I know that every single unit that leaves our doors has been tested by our equipment and human ears. We also do a great job holding up our warranty and treating customer right who are unsatisfied. I would call that a 100% chance of a good one.

This type of service is worth more than some people understand. My Bifrost 2 first suffered the early batch capacitor issue (not Schiit's fault, but their supplier and Schiit sent me an entirely new unit) and now a minor tolerance issue with my Bifrost 2 RCAs and KLE cables that resulted in socket damage (likely my fault) and my tickets went from submitted to a real person to RA form and return instructions provided within minutes. I don't know of any other audio company providing this level of service for their products. Perfection doesn't exist, but the effort and service speaks for itself (not to mention the subjective audio quality) and I'm not sure I can get that experience anywhere else.
 

Samoyed

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This board isn't a revised version. We replaced the board with another just like it tested as expected. The time and cost involved in tracking down a minor failure just isn't worth it.
When do you expect to have further stock for immediate delivery?
 

Spocko

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Will Schiit make a product which combines the Magni Heresy HPA with a flagship DAC chip by AKM or ESS?
Can we put the magic of any "flagship DAC chip" performance expectations to bed? Whether it's a 5 year old DAC chip from AKM or ESS or whoever, we have long ago reached the point where all DAC chips including the one in your $9 dongle far exceed the capabilities of the analog section of the DAC, amplifier or speaker. In other words all distortion and other imperfections are not from the chip itself, but from the design and implementation between the DAC chip and your speakers. So if you take the engineering effort put into a top of the line $5,000 DAC and used a DAC chip from a $9 Apple dongle, it will sound just as good as if the chip was the latest AKM.

When RME released their newest ADI2 FS DAC in 2019, their avid fans asked why they wouldn't put in the latest AKM DAC chip, and their reply? No difference in sound quality. All improvements were in the implementations and engineering unrelated to the DAC chip itself (lower noise floor, etc.) The ONLY reason DAC companies use the latest and greatest DAC chip? To satisfy consumer expectations that the newest anything must be better. God forbid you release a $5,000 DAC and try to argue that a 4 year old DAC chip sounds as good as anything made currently. Yes, both Anthem and Hegel are making this argument as both of their newest DAC implementations are using older/lesser DAC chips because they "sound better" but their fans are still pissed.
 

gvl

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This board isn't a revised version. We replaced the board with another just like it. The board tested as expected. The time and cost involved in tracking down a minor failure just isn't worth it.

Do I understand you correctly and the board goes direct to a dumpster?
 

Pillars

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Can we put the magic of any "flagship DAC chip" performance expectations to bed? Whether it's a 5 year old DAC chip from AKM or ESS or whoever, we have long ago reached the point where all DAC chips including the one in your $9 dongle far exceed the capabilities of the analog section of the DAC, amplifier or speaker. In other words all distortion and other imperfections are not from the chip itself, but from the design and implementation between the DAC chip and your speakers. So if you take the engineering effort put into a top of the line $5,000 DAC and used a DAC chip from a $9 Apple dongle, it will sound just as good as if the chip was the latest AKM.

When RME released their newest ADI2 FS DAC in 2019, their avid fans asked why they wouldn't put in the latest AKM DAC chip, and their reply? No difference in sound quality. All improvements were in the implementations and engineering unrelated to the DAC chip itself (lower noise floor, etc.) The ONLY reason DAC companies use the latest and greatest DAC chip? To satisfy consumer expectations that the newest anything must be better. God forbid you release a $5,000 DAC and try to argue that a 4 year old DAC chip sounds as good as anything made currently. Yes, both Anthem and Hegel are making this argument as both of their newest DAC implementations are using older/lesser DAC chips because they "sound better" but their fans are still pissed.

I don't know why but I can hear differences between the D50, D70, DX7s & Bifrost 2 despite measurements saying they should for the most part all sound the same. Coffee is coffee, some prefer a certain flavor. Find what yours is and enjoy. I like this site for the objective data, however subjectively more often than not people discern differences in gear. I play a lot of Hunt Showdown, a game that uses a lot of similar sounds and very high quality audio. When I change DACs things sound a bit different. Better? doubtful, a little different, definitely.
 
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