Schiit Audio: Marketing vs Engineering

[Ken Newton]

Ok, this is what I was thinking when I heard the explanation for the fix. The dac glitch I think was already addressed by having two dacs out of phase and switching between them to fast forward through the settling time.

If you're describing an interleaved shuffling between the two DAC chip outputs so to hide the settling artifacts from appearing at the box output, that will work. It does, however, require the alternating high-speed connecting and disconnecting of each DAC chip's analog output from the common DAC box output. Which then requires some form of post DAC analog-switch solution.

 

[RayDunzl]

I bought a DEQ2496. It wouldn't save settings. Found the big old-style ROM chip had legs bent under and not going in the holes in the socket.

My buddy liked my DEQ2496, and bought one. His would randomly freeze/restart. I told him what to look for. He fixed it.

Both have been fine since (years). Not sure what the moral of this story is.

I'm told that Behringer quality control has improved, and, even in the bad old years, it must have been better than Schiit's, with its poorly soldered RCA cables (among other problems one can read about on other forums).

It failed again a few weeks ago, took it out of the digital path and life went on.

All lit up, but no play, and the display was just displaying all pixels on.

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Checked the price of a new one... $279... almost surprised they are still in production.

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Finally opened it a few days ago for a bout of Stare and Compare™.

The ROM looked ok. A little wigglejiggle changed nothing.

Poked around with a meter, and with nothing marked as a voltage test point, came to no conclusion except there didn't seem to be many volts running around.

Eventually recognized a possible BulgeTop™ cap in the power supply.

Ordered a part and waited patiently for the doorbell.

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Ding dong!!! Ding dong!!!

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Whipped out my Hakko iron, found some 50 year old solder in Dad's (RIP) Ham junk box, figured out how to operate the Hakko again (not used in in years), and treated myself to a good snort of molten lead vapors. Yeah!

Replaced the cap with an equivalent 16V 1000uf 105C. Stitched up the wounds.

Said a short prayer to the Big Electron in the Sky. Pushed the button.

Looks like I'm back in business from the view on the Breakfast Table.

The offender:

 

[solderdude]

The question remains is why it bulged.
Possibly the voltage across it is close to its rating or it has too much ripple current to handle.

Whenever I find something like this I have a tendency to replace it with a higher voltage rated one (providing it can fit) which in this case could be 25V.
In this case, most likely, the replaced cap will be good for may years to come though.

 

[RayDunzl]

The question remains is why it bulged

Somebody's picture, and offending cap location

The exterior case is 91F/33C on an 84F/29C shelf, so, not much heat, after 12 hours.

Replacement cap is a (claimed) Panasonic FM 5000hr - https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/315/panasonic_aba0000ce108-1196763.pdf

Original - DECON SHL 1000hr- http://www.harzion.co.il/files/upload/file-r0j89y2Q04.PDF

Comment from badcaps.net in 2006

"They used the crappiest caps ever...decon and ksd"

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It's been running an estimated 61,320 hours (since May of 2012), so...

My unit, April of 2012:

 

[solderdude]

Ahh .. looks like a switcher so most likely the cause of death is HF ripple currents.
New one should last a long time ...

 

[RayDunzl]

An interesting occurrence:

Upon cleaning the dust from around where it sat on the rack, underneath the old neoprene mousepad it was sitting on to provide some necessary clearance for cables between it and the base of the TV right behind it, I found a surprise!

 

[dkinric]

$484.50 per Google. Enough to buy even more Schiit.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Somebody's picture, and offending cap location

View attachment 26886

The exterior case is 91F/33C on an 84F/29C shelf, so, not much heat, after 12 hours.

Replacement cap is a (claimed) Panasonic FM 5000hr - https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/315/panasonic_aba0000ce108-1196763.pdf

Original - DECON SHL 1000hr- http://www.harzion.co.il/files/upload/file-r0j89y2Q04.PDF

Comment from badcaps.net in 2006

"They used the crappiest caps ever...decon and ksd"

---

It's been running an estimated 61,320 hours (since May of 2012), so...

My unit, April of 2012:

View attachment 26887

So now that you've replaced the cap with one of much higher quality, do you find the blacks more blacker, the noise lower, the soundstage larger and the sound much more analog like? Or is it more of an inner detail, and greater emotional involvement kind of improvement?

 

[GrimSurfer]

So now that you've replaced the cap with one of much higher quality, do you find the blacks more blacker, the noise lower, the soundstage larger and the sound much more analog like? Or is it more of an inner detail, and greater emotional involvement kind of improvement?

LOL. It would have been difficult to see the humour if this was another forum!

I was cautiously optimistic about Shiit, but they seem to spend an awful lot of energy on marketing... and that's usually a sign that the wrong guys are in charge.

Don't get me wrong, I like humour (Shiit?) and maybe even a bit of Norse mythology (Odin) but when such signals overpower the dry, lifeless stuff that engineers prattle on about, one is left wondering if noise is dominating the signal path.

I'm not an engineer or scientist, but I've worked with them enough to know that they don't reduce complex issues down to trite comments like ~ if it's good for launching TLAMs it's good enough for home audio. Such statements are lower than meaningless... they assume the audience doesn't understand that there's no direct connection between the two from a form meets function perspective.

I was skeptical of Shiit's new preamp line in another thread. Not because I don't think they have the means to produce great gear. It's because I get the impression that they place sales waaay ahead of the kind of nerdy excellence that would get them noticed by the small cadre of enthusiasts who know the difference between Shiit and Shinola (which, in Audio terms, doesn't appear to be much).

Perhaps one day, I'll read an independent tech review that causes me to change my mind. FWIW, I'm looking forward to that day. We all want better gear.

 

[617]

I'm watching that video. Their comparison of MQA to Dolby and the stagnation of the HT market is pretty interesting.

 

[Javamalava]

Come to think of it, a large chunk of audiophiles favor vinyl over digital and vinyl is known for having some audible hiss/or crackle. Yet, some people in here wet the bed over a bad measurement that happened at -140db from some dac.

Do I still appreciate this website? Yes. Of course. It's clearly just getting harsh with people choosing dacs strictly based off of measurements and without having a listening test.

..Then again a lot of us don't live near audio stores in order to audition gear, so maybe this forum will bring those some piece of mind.. and when that person orders a dac that measures godly but sounds like dog, at that point they'll assume that's how it's meant to sound because they were seduced by the measurements they've read online.

If anyone read my entire post and is wondering what my gear is I have the focal utopias hooked up to a chord mojo.

 

[solderdude]

when that person orders a dac that measures godly but sounds like dog

The Mojo measured well does it sound like dog ?

 

[Soniclife]

The Mojo measured well does it sound like dog ?

A relative used to have a dog called mojo, so yes it does.

 

[Javamalava]

The Mojo measured well does it sound like dog ?

Measures on par or is outmeasured in some tests by $150-200 dacs. Oh boy does the mojo sound good nonetheless. I've heard plenty of dacs in the mojos price bracket, yet none sound as resolving and smooth as it.

In an odd way, some dacs like the smsl d1 remind me of when you turn your monitor sharpness level to maximum. You'd expect that sharp visual reproduction to be more pleasing to the eyes, but not necessarily the case and hence why anti-aliasing exists.

 

[solderdude]

It measures just as flat and with low distortion as most other well made DAC's.
Amir also measured it

I have compared it (blind and level matched) in the past and sold it again.
Reason: battery dependency. These only last a few years and then have to be replaced but are non-user replaceable.
For me that would not be a problem.

I am afraid I am DAC-deaf when it concerns most well constructed DAC's

 

[Javamalava]

It measures just as flat and with low distortion as most other well made DAC's.
Amir also measured it

I have compared it (blind and level matched) in the past and sold it again.
Reason: battery dependency. These only last a few years and then have to be replaced but are non-user replaceable.
For me that would not be a problem.

I am afraid I am DAC-deaf when it concerns most well constructed DAC's

It could be you aren't fixated on the right spots tonally, dynamically etc when listening to dacs. The differences are minor even when using my utopias, but the difference is there.

 

[solderdude]

Fortunately for me I am not fixated on anything.

 

[Javamalava]

Fortunately for me I am not fixated on anything.

I'd say fixated a bit on the dacs measurements, but I could be wrong.

 

[jsrtheta]

It could be you aren't fixated on the right spots tonally, dynamically etc when listening to dacs. The differences are minor even when using my utopias, but the difference is there.

Uh-huh...what?

 

[Confused_by_tech]

Would someone please show me the relevance of multibit adc’s used in medical mri equipment when discussing multibit dacs used for audio?

Phillips, GE and Simiens market in part on their engineering with multibit adc’s re image acquisition but I have never read a single mention of multibit dacs in this setting.

https://www.usa.philips.com/healthcare/education-resources/technologies/mri/dstream